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[Music]

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all right

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[Music]

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thank you

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[Music]

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what's up um

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if there's any audio problems let me

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I'll lower this a little bit I didn't

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plan on doing this but

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how often does NASA do a public meeting

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on UFOs

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never

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so yeah I figured I'd do it

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even though I didn't sleep as usual

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in the meantime

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I may have to I'll probably take

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uh sorry about that

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call me you can hear okay tell me tell

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them tell me you can hear me okay

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anybody chime in all right good thanks

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green hiker

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um

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[Music]

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in the meantime I don't know if

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everybody is on Twitter because not

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everybody is on Twitter

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um but they're the last couple of weeks

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they were supposedly supposed to be a

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say that yes there was supposed to be no

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a hundred percent

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I

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rooted but supposedly it's still coming

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so

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we'll see

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um

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uh and if it comes I don't really know

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any details except it could be really

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good I know that's cryptic but

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let's hope it comes out but like I said

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on Twitter if it doesn't come out it'll

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something else will come out eventually

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and

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whistleblowers behind the scenes we've

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heard about that we've heard about this

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closure for 2023 Labor Day Thanksgiving

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the end of the year I don't know

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um I think stuff will happen and if that

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article comes out that will be a big

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a big help

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um so

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other things we had the 29 Palms flares

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slash UFO incident

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which originally

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looked like it could be a true UAP

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unknown case but as far as I know right

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now after the work of Mick West did

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comparing two videos it looks like a

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flares case but

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I'm glad Jeremy Jeremy Corbell was able

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to let the Marines have their say and

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and that's not over yet anyway here's

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the meeting I'll shut up for now hello

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good morning and welcome my name is Dan

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Evans and as the designated federal

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official for NASA's unidentified

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anomalous phenomena independent study

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team I'd like to call this meeting to

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order and introduce the panelists in the

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back row we have Nadia Drake Paula

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bontempi Federica Bianco David grinspoon

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Carlin toner Josh sametta and Jennifer

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Buss well in the front row we have

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Walter Scott Warren Randolph Reggie

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Brothers Shelley Wright

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Scott Kelly

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Anna Maria

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Mike gold and David spurgle who serves

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as chair of the team

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I have a few opening remarks but to

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begin I'd like to start with the

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following

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first I'd like to pay tribute to the

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life of retired Air Force Master

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Sergeant Sam Sato who's been laid to

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rest at Arlington National Cemetery

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today

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following his active duty service Sam

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served as the intelligence collection

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manager for the National Intelligence

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manager for Aviation where he played a

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critical role in UAP analysis all of us

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at Nasa offer our condolences to Sam's

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family friends and colleagues

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second I'd like to take this opportunity

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to express my profound gratitude to our

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distinguished panel of experts for their

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unwavering commitment and dedication

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it's disheartening to note that several

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of them have been subjected to online

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abuse due to their decision to

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participate on this panel a NASA

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security team is actively addressing

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this issue

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we at Nasa are acutely aware of the

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considerable public interest in UAP

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however it's critical to understand any

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form of harassment towards our panelists

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only serves to detract from the

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scientific process which requires an

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environment of respect and openness

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now every member of our team is a

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recognized Authority in their respective

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field and they have our unequivocal

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support NASA stands in solidarity with

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them advocating for a respectful

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discourse that befits their expertise

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and the significance of their work

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thanks

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now in recent years the subjects of

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unidentified aerial phenomena nowadays

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termed unidentified anomalous phenomena

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or uaps has captured the attention of

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the public the scientific community and

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the government alike and it's now our

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Collective responsibility to investigate

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these occurrences with the rigorous

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scientific scrutiny that they deserve

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NASA administrator sent us a Bill Nelson

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believes that understanding uaps is

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vital for several reasons which is why

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he directed this study

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first and foremost it provides an

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opportunity for us to expand our

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understanding of the world around us

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as an organization dedicated to

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exploring the unknown this work is in

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our DNA

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secondly this study aims to enhance

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situational awareness the presence of

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uaps raises concerns about the safety of

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our skies and it's this nation's

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obligation to determine whether these

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phenomena pose any potential risks to

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airspace safety

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by understanding the nature of uaps we

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can ensure that our skies remain a safe

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space for all

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in order to achieve these goals it is

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crucial that we employ a scientific lens

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for our UAP work it's precisely this

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rigorous evidence-based approach that

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allows one to separate fact from fiction

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this team is comprised of experts from

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various disciplines which allows them to

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approach this work from multiple

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perspective

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and we have greatly benefited from that

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Collective expertise

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now why do we value a scientific

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approach it's because science is built

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on evidence it thrives on scrutiny it

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demands reproduce

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reproducibility account sorry and above

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all objectivity when we approach uaps

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from a scientific perspective we do not

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come in with an agenda we come in

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needing a roadmap indeed the primary

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objective of this incredible team of

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experts is not to go back and look at

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grainy footage of uaps but rather to

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give us a roadmap to guide us for future

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analysis and this is the very scientific

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method that NASA holds true to its heart

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scientific research is intended to be

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publicly available and transparent a

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NASA Prides itself on making its data

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and images available to the public to

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learn and explore on their own by

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holding public meetings like this one we

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aim for open and honest dialogue with

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the public we recognize that public

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interest in uaps is high and that the

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demand for answers is strong

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conversations like this one are the

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first step to reducing the stigma

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surrounding UAP reporting

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moreover transparency is essential for

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fostering trust between NASA the public

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and the scientific community

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in order to do things right we must work

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together pulling our resources our

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knowledge and our expertise and by

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maintaining open channels of

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communication we can facilitate

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collaboration encourage the exchange of

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ideas and ensure that our work is as

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robust as possible

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not only that

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our commitment to openness is in itself

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a reflection of NASA's commitment to

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Scientific integrity

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there's an organization dedicated to the

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pursuit of knowledge it is NASA's

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responsibility to be honest and

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forthright and to and to follow the

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science

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and by being transparent in our work we

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uphold our dedication to Scientific

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excellence

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the meeting today represents the first

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deliberative actions that the team has

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taken and so it's important to keep in

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mind that they still have several months

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of work ahead of them their final report

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will be released this summer and we will

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publish it on our website

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NASA believes that the study of

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unidentified anomalous phenomena

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represents an exciting step forward in

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our quest to uncover the mysteries of

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the world around us by embracing a

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scientific lens we ensure that our work

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is rigorous and reliable and by valuing

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transparency and openness we can foster

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trust and collaboration with the public

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simply put this is why we do what we do

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now before I introduce Nikki there are a

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few administrative matters to attend to

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firstly the identified anomalous

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phenomena independent study team has

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been established in accordance with the

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federal advisory committee act known as

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fako its parent committee is the earth

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science advisory committees as such this

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group does not report to the government

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it reports to the earth science advisory

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committee who'll debate the

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recommendations and formally transmit

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this team's report to the government

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next our deliberative committee meetings

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such as this one are open to the public

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and also after this panel was convened

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the National Defense authorization act

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known as the ndaa changed the a in UAP

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to be anomalous

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accordingly this Pals remit was expanded

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to Encompass not just aerial UAP

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however the majority of UAP sightings to

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date have been in the aerial domain so

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it's fair to say that this panel's focus

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is on the aerial aspect of anomalous

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now in compliance with the fact of

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federal statute four more minutes have

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been taken throughout the meeting today

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and these meetings and these minutes are

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for the public record and hence all

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presentations and discussions and

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comments by the committee members should

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be considered to be on the record

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each member of this UAP study team has

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been appointed because of their specific

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subject matter expertise as individuals

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and hence each member is subject to

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Federal ethics laws

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this category of appointment is called

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special government employees or sges for

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our non-government members and our two

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federal employees

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serve as regular government employees

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known as rges to the panel

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all members on this committee should

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remember to recuse themselves if a topic

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comes up in which you have a potential

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conflict of interest between your

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financial interests including those of

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your employer

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and matters that we're discussing and

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then finally panel if you have any

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ethics questions please see me

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separately and if needed I'll put you in

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contact with a NASA ethics attorney

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thanks for bearing with me I'd now like

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to turn to the amazing Dr Nikki Fox

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associate administrator for NASA's

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science Mission director over to you

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thank you Dan and thank you to all the

287
00:15:00,590 --> 00:14:57,899
members of NASA's UAP independent study

288
00:15:02,990 --> 00:15:00,600
team your selfless dedication to the

289
00:15:05,629 --> 00:15:03,000
pursuit of knowledge is just so

290
00:15:07,850 --> 00:15:05,639
commendable and I want to thank you the

291
00:15:10,250 --> 00:15:07,860
audience for tuning in today to watch

292
00:15:13,129 --> 00:15:10,260
our first deliberative meeting of NASA's

293
00:15:15,829 --> 00:15:13,139
independent study team on evaluating and

294
00:15:17,150 --> 00:15:15,839
categorizing unidentified anomalous

295
00:15:19,430 --> 00:15:17,160
phenomena

296
00:15:22,610 --> 00:15:19,440
before I begin though I really do want

297
00:15:24,470 --> 00:15:22,620
to double down on Dan's words that it is

298
00:15:26,750 --> 00:15:24,480
really disheartening to hear of the

299
00:15:29,030 --> 00:15:26,760
harassment that our panelists have faced

300
00:15:29,990 --> 00:15:29,040
online all because they're studying this

301
00:15:32,629 --> 00:15:30,000
topic

302
00:15:35,449 --> 00:15:32,639
NASA stands behind our panelists and we

303
00:15:37,550 --> 00:15:35,459
do not tolerate abuse harassment only

304
00:15:40,490 --> 00:15:37,560
leads to further stigmatization of the

305
00:15:42,590 --> 00:15:40,500
UAP field significantly hindering the

306
00:15:44,870 --> 00:15:42,600
scientific progress and discouraging

307
00:15:46,069 --> 00:15:44,880
others to study this important subject

308
00:15:48,170 --> 00:15:46,079
matter

309
00:15:49,970 --> 00:15:48,180
your harassment also obstructs the

310
00:15:52,250 --> 00:15:49,980
Public's right to knowledge our

311
00:15:54,410 --> 00:15:52,260
panelists are leading experts in the

312
00:15:57,530 --> 00:15:54,420
scientific Aeronautics and data

313
00:15:59,689 --> 00:15:57,540
analytics communities we are very lucky

314
00:16:02,030 --> 00:15:59,699
to have them on board to share their

315
00:16:04,430 --> 00:16:02,040
invaluable insights to inform NASA on

316
00:16:06,650 --> 00:16:04,440
what possible data could be collected in

317
00:16:09,769 --> 00:16:06,660
the future and how it can be collected

318
00:16:11,750 --> 00:16:09,779
to help us better understand the nature

319
00:16:13,550 --> 00:16:11,760
of UAP

320
00:16:16,250 --> 00:16:13,560
the UAP independent study was

321
00:16:18,769 --> 00:16:16,260
commissioned to create a road map on how

322
00:16:21,829 --> 00:16:18,779
to use the tools of science to evaluate

323
00:16:24,410 --> 00:16:21,839
and categorize the nature of uaps going

324
00:16:26,509 --> 00:16:24,420
forward this roadmap of course will help

325
00:16:29,210 --> 00:16:26,519
the federal government obtain usable

326
00:16:30,910 --> 00:16:29,220
data to explain the nature of future

327
00:16:33,530 --> 00:16:30,920
uaps

328
00:16:36,050 --> 00:16:33,540
transparency openness and scientific

329
00:16:38,329 --> 00:16:36,060
Integrity are Pinnacle to NASA's Mission

330
00:16:40,490 --> 00:16:38,339
they're at the Forefront of this public

331
00:16:43,490 --> 00:16:40,500
meeting and have been throughout the

332
00:16:45,590 --> 00:16:43,500
team's seven months on this study

333
00:16:47,569 --> 00:16:45,600
as Dan noted this is a working meeting

334
00:16:50,150 --> 00:16:47,579
and so the public will have the

335
00:16:52,850 --> 00:16:50,160
incredible opportunity to witness the

336
00:16:55,310 --> 00:16:52,860
process of Science in action

337
00:16:57,710 --> 00:16:55,320
at Nasa we lead the world in Exploration

338
00:16:59,269 --> 00:16:57,720
and are committed to rigorous scientific

339
00:17:01,189 --> 00:16:59,279
inquiry

340
00:17:03,530 --> 00:17:01,199
the nature of science is to better

341
00:17:06,230 --> 00:17:03,540
understand the unknown and to do that

342
00:17:08,449 --> 00:17:06,240
our scientists need data

343
00:17:10,909 --> 00:17:08,459
right now there is very limited number

344
00:17:13,309 --> 00:17:10,919
of high quality observations and data

345
00:17:15,289 --> 00:17:13,319
curation of UAP

346
00:17:17,809 --> 00:17:15,299
the existing data available from

347
00:17:19,850 --> 00:17:17,819
eyewitness reports are often modeled and

348
00:17:23,510 --> 00:17:19,860
cannot provide conclusive evidence that

349
00:17:25,789 --> 00:17:23,520
supports UAP recognition and Analysis

350
00:17:28,010 --> 00:17:25,799
additionally an object's background can

351
00:17:31,010 --> 00:17:28,020
complicate the data further and render

352
00:17:32,810 --> 00:17:31,020
it unusable due to Conventional objects

353
00:17:34,909 --> 00:17:32,820
that can mimic or overshadow the

354
00:17:37,730 --> 00:17:34,919
phenomena completely such as commercial

355
00:17:41,690 --> 00:17:37,740
aircraft military equipment the weather

356
00:17:44,270 --> 00:17:41,700
and ionospheric phenomena like auroras

357
00:17:45,770 --> 00:17:44,280
this lack of high quality data make it

358
00:17:49,250 --> 00:17:45,780
impossible to draw scientific

359
00:17:51,830 --> 00:17:49,260
conclusions on the nature of UAP

360
00:17:53,510 --> 00:17:51,840
now this team has used unclassified data

361
00:17:56,330 --> 00:17:53,520
from civilian government entities

362
00:17:58,370 --> 00:17:56,340
commercial data and data from other

363
00:18:00,590 --> 00:17:58,380
sources to inform uh their

364
00:18:02,510 --> 00:18:00,600
recommendations and as Dan noted they

365
00:18:04,730 --> 00:18:02,520
will be published in a public report

366
00:18:06,470 --> 00:18:04,740
that comes out this summer

367
00:18:08,750 --> 00:18:06,480
I want to emphasize that there is really

368
00:18:11,150 --> 00:18:08,760
great benefit to studying unclassified

369
00:18:12,529 --> 00:18:11,160
data rather than classified data for

370
00:18:15,350 --> 00:18:12,539
this study

371
00:18:17,210 --> 00:18:15,360
first unidentified anomalous phenomena

372
00:18:19,730 --> 00:18:17,220
sightings themselves are not classified

373
00:18:21,350 --> 00:18:19,740
it's often the sensor platform that is

374
00:18:24,710 --> 00:18:21,360
classified and you can kind of think of

375
00:18:26,750 --> 00:18:24,720
it if a fighter jet took a picture of

376
00:18:28,970 --> 00:18:26,760
the Statue of Liberty then that image

377
00:18:30,770 --> 00:18:28,980
would be classified not because of the

378
00:18:32,690 --> 00:18:30,780
subject in the picture but because of

379
00:18:34,850 --> 00:18:32,700
the sensors on the plane

380
00:18:36,529 --> 00:18:34,860
second unclassified data that make it

381
00:18:39,230 --> 00:18:36,539
possible for our team to communicate

382
00:18:42,289 --> 00:18:39,240
openly to advance our understanding of

383
00:18:44,390 --> 00:18:42,299
UAP not only with each other but across

384
00:18:45,409 --> 00:18:44,400
the scientific community and to the

385
00:18:48,110 --> 00:18:45,419
public

386
00:18:50,270 --> 00:18:48,120
this ensures a clear and transparent

387
00:18:52,250 --> 00:18:50,280
pipeline of information that can be

388
00:18:55,970 --> 00:18:52,260
built upon through the general through

389
00:18:58,130 --> 00:18:55,980
generations to expand our understanding

390
00:19:01,310 --> 00:18:58,140
this study relies on open data

391
00:19:03,710 --> 00:19:01,320
everything we use at Nasa is open and

392
00:19:05,930 --> 00:19:03,720
anyone can look at these records so I

393
00:19:07,090 --> 00:19:05,940
invite you to visit our open data portal

394
00:19:15,529 --> 00:19:07,100
at

395
00:19:18,470 --> 00:19:15,539
and fully accessible to the public

396
00:19:22,430 --> 00:19:18,480
additionally please check out data.gov

397
00:19:24,529 --> 00:19:22,440
open slash data for a great overview of

398
00:19:26,870 --> 00:19:24,539
where you can find the archives for our

399
00:19:29,090 --> 00:19:26,880
science and Mission data sites

400
00:19:31,070 --> 00:19:29,100
I am very very much looking forward to

401
00:19:33,049 --> 00:19:31,080
hearing the deliberations put forth

402
00:19:35,870 --> 00:19:33,059
today from our distinguished panel of

403
00:19:37,730 --> 00:19:35,880
experts thank you so much for being here

404
00:19:39,110 --> 00:19:37,740
thank you Dr Fox

405
00:19:41,330 --> 00:19:39,120
um before you've got a little just want

406
00:19:44,270 --> 00:19:41,340
to open up to questions let me start

407
00:19:45,710 --> 00:19:44,280
with uh a question on this oh on the

408
00:19:48,650 --> 00:19:45,720
NASA data

409
00:19:50,150 --> 00:19:48,660
um I think one of the important things

410
00:19:52,850 --> 00:19:50,160
um that we'll be looking at with other

411
00:19:55,250 --> 00:19:52,860
data sets and events is the data is not

412
00:19:56,810 --> 00:19:55,260
very well calibrated can you say just a

413
00:19:58,370 --> 00:19:56,820
little bit about how NASA goes through

414
00:20:01,970 --> 00:19:58,380
calibrating some of its earth science

415
00:20:04,190 --> 00:20:01,980
data oh yes we very very rigorous um us

416
00:20:05,690 --> 00:20:04,200
I mean all of our data sets not just

417
00:20:08,210 --> 00:20:05,700
earth science go through extremely

418
00:20:10,310 --> 00:20:08,220
rigorous calibration

419
00:20:12,230 --> 00:20:10,320
um we don't release anything until it's

420
00:20:15,350 --> 00:20:12,240
really perfect I mean we have quick look

421
00:20:17,150 --> 00:20:15,360
data that is marked as quick look data

422
00:20:20,330 --> 00:20:17,160
um so you know you can use it to get

423
00:20:22,909 --> 00:20:20,340
preliminary findings but wait for the

424
00:20:26,930 --> 00:20:22,919
the really nicely cleaned up data so I

425
00:20:30,070 --> 00:20:26,940
uh a lot of rigorous protocol in putting

426
00:20:32,630 --> 00:20:30,080
out our data to make sure it is perfect

427
00:20:35,690 --> 00:20:32,640
do we have any other questions from the

428
00:20:35,700 --> 00:20:49,909
all right thank you so much

429
00:20:49,919 --> 00:20:56,870
foreign

430
00:21:01,070 --> 00:20:59,210
and when I look at our chart we have a

431
00:21:04,370 --> 00:21:01,080
lengthy charge but at the high level

432
00:21:08,090 --> 00:21:04,380
summary of it is how can NASA contribute

433
00:21:09,770 --> 00:21:08,100
to understanding the nature of uaps

434
00:21:11,990 --> 00:21:09,780
and our role here

435
00:21:14,750 --> 00:21:12,000
is not to resolve the nature of these

436
00:21:17,029 --> 00:21:14,760
events but rather to give NASA guidance

437
00:21:19,789 --> 00:21:17,039
to provide a roadmap of how it can

438
00:21:21,470 --> 00:21:19,799
contribute in this area

439
00:21:23,870 --> 00:21:21,480
after

440
00:21:27,230 --> 00:21:23,880
my opening remarks we'll hear from Sean

441
00:21:29,390 --> 00:21:27,240
Kirkpatrick from the aaro and it's the

442
00:21:32,029 --> 00:21:29,400
aaro that's charged with leading the

443
00:21:34,190 --> 00:21:32,039
whole of government UAP effort

444
00:21:35,810 --> 00:21:34,200
and they've already issued some

445
00:21:37,130 --> 00:21:35,820
preliminary reports on some of the

446
00:21:39,830 --> 00:21:37,140
events

447
00:21:42,770 --> 00:21:39,840
NASA's role is to use its unique

448
00:21:45,350 --> 00:21:42,780
capabilities and its role as a civilian

449
00:21:47,810 --> 00:21:45,360
agency interacting with the scientific

450
00:21:49,549 --> 00:21:47,820
community in an open and transparent

451
00:21:53,450 --> 00:21:49,559
manner

452
00:21:56,090 --> 00:21:53,460
and you know as Dr Fox emphasized the

453
00:21:57,169 --> 00:21:56,100
defense and intelligence agency data on

454
00:21:59,930 --> 00:21:57,179
UAP

455
00:22:02,810 --> 00:21:59,940
and are often classified primarily

456
00:22:04,549 --> 00:22:02,820
because of how the data is collected not

457
00:22:07,490 --> 00:22:04,559
because what's in the data

458
00:22:10,610 --> 00:22:07,500
the camera on an F-35 took a picture of

459
00:22:13,250 --> 00:22:10,620
a bird it's classified if a spy

460
00:22:16,010 --> 00:22:13,260
satellite takes an image of a balloon

461
00:22:18,950 --> 00:22:16,020
and we've had in the news some balloons

462
00:22:20,990 --> 00:22:18,960
recently that date is classified

463
00:22:22,010 --> 00:22:21,000
and that's because of a desire to not

464
00:22:24,590 --> 00:22:22,020
reveal

465
00:22:26,450 --> 00:22:24,600
all technical capabilities to other

466
00:22:28,730 --> 00:22:26,460
nations

467
00:22:30,590 --> 00:22:28,740
NASA on the other hand operates in a

468
00:22:31,490 --> 00:22:30,600
mode where it's collecting data in the

469
00:22:33,649 --> 00:22:31,500
open

470
00:22:36,770 --> 00:22:33,659
and the NASA data is available on

471
00:22:39,470 --> 00:22:36,780
websites and is well characterized and

472
00:22:43,010 --> 00:22:39,480
because of NASA being the civilian

473
00:22:44,570 --> 00:22:43,020
agency studying Air and Space it has a

474
00:22:48,169 --> 00:22:44,580
special role to play

475
00:22:50,930 --> 00:22:48,179
and I see our charge primarily as

476
00:22:53,330 --> 00:22:50,940
helping identify for NASA ways it could

477
00:22:56,029 --> 00:22:53,340
play that role and contribute to

478
00:22:59,690 --> 00:22:58,250
we've gone through a preliminary data

479
00:23:02,270 --> 00:22:59,700
collection stage

480
00:23:03,529 --> 00:23:02,280
and to summarize some of the things that

481
00:23:05,750 --> 00:23:03,539
we've learned

482
00:23:08,390 --> 00:23:05,760
the current data collection efforts

483
00:23:11,350 --> 00:23:08,400
regarding uaps are unsystematic

484
00:23:14,450 --> 00:23:11,360
and fragmented across various agencies

485
00:23:17,330 --> 00:23:14,460
often using instruments uncalibrated for

486
00:23:20,090 --> 00:23:17,340
scientific data collection

487
00:23:22,130 --> 00:23:20,100
and if I think about the data that

488
00:23:23,810 --> 00:23:22,140
people have out there it's in many ways

489
00:23:26,930 --> 00:23:23,820
what we'd like to think of as citizen

490
00:23:28,669 --> 00:23:26,940
science but again it is uncalibrated

491
00:23:33,049 --> 00:23:28,679
Data

492
00:23:36,169 --> 00:23:33,059
um poorly characterized not well curated

493
00:23:39,110 --> 00:23:36,179
and we face looking through this data a

494
00:23:41,630 --> 00:23:39,120
significant background a background of

495
00:23:44,510 --> 00:23:41,640
many of these events are commercial

496
00:23:47,870 --> 00:23:44,520
aircraft civilian America military

497
00:23:50,630 --> 00:23:47,880
drones weather and research balloons

498
00:23:54,490 --> 00:23:50,640
military equipment ionospheric

499
00:23:56,930 --> 00:23:54,500
phenomenon we need to characterize how

500
00:24:01,070 --> 00:23:56,940
when the date when the date is taken

501
00:24:03,169 --> 00:24:01,080
when it sees events like this first

502
00:24:06,350 --> 00:24:03,179
the current existing data and eyewitness

503
00:24:08,149 --> 00:24:06,360
reports alone are insufficient to

504
00:24:10,490 --> 00:24:08,159
provide conclusive evidence about the

505
00:24:13,669 --> 00:24:10,500
nature and origin of of every UAP event

506
00:24:17,210 --> 00:24:13,679
they're often uninformative due to lack

507
00:24:19,730 --> 00:24:17,220
of quality control and data curation

508
00:24:22,310 --> 00:24:19,740
to understand UAP better

509
00:24:24,950 --> 00:24:22,320
targeted data collection

510
00:24:27,230 --> 00:24:24,960
thorough data curation and robust

511
00:24:29,649 --> 00:24:27,240
analyzes are needed

512
00:24:32,330 --> 00:24:29,659
such an approach will help to discern

513
00:24:34,610 --> 00:24:32,340
unexplained UAP sightings

514
00:24:37,789 --> 00:24:34,620
but even then there's no guarantee that

515
00:24:39,950 --> 00:24:37,799
all sightings will be explained

516
00:24:41,930 --> 00:24:39,960
another challenge in this area is what

517
00:24:44,810 --> 00:24:41,940
we call stigma there's a real stigma

518
00:24:47,690 --> 00:24:44,820
among people reporting events

519
00:24:49,250 --> 00:24:47,700
and despite NASA's extensive efforts to

520
00:24:52,990 --> 00:24:49,260
reduce the stigma

521
00:24:56,270 --> 00:24:53,000
the origin of the uaps remain unclear

522
00:24:59,210 --> 00:24:56,280
and we feel many events remain

523
00:25:01,130 --> 00:24:59,220
unreported commercial pilots for example

524
00:25:05,270 --> 00:25:01,140
are very reluctant

525
00:25:08,270 --> 00:25:05,280
to report anomalies and one of our goals

526
00:25:11,270 --> 00:25:08,280
in having NASA play a role is to remove

527
00:25:14,270 --> 00:25:11,280
stigma and

528
00:25:17,630 --> 00:25:14,280
get high quality data

529
00:25:20,690 --> 00:25:17,640
um in fact if I were to summarize

530
00:25:24,769 --> 00:25:20,700
in one line what I feel we've learned

531
00:25:27,710 --> 00:25:24,779
it's we need high quality data and this

532
00:25:30,950 --> 00:25:27,720
is not some as a research scientist

533
00:25:32,269 --> 00:25:30,960
whose work has been primarily focused in

534
00:25:35,630 --> 00:25:32,279
cosmology

535
00:25:37,789 --> 00:25:35,640
I would say the lesson of my career has

536
00:25:40,310 --> 00:25:37,799
been you want to address important

537
00:25:43,669 --> 00:25:40,320
questions you need high quality data

538
00:25:46,010 --> 00:25:43,679
with well-calibrated instruments

539
00:25:48,470 --> 00:25:46,020
so the let me now

540
00:25:50,630 --> 00:25:48,480
uh introduce the agenda

541
00:25:52,730 --> 00:25:50,640
we're going to hear from a number of

542
00:25:53,990 --> 00:25:52,740
experts who will be presenting up to

543
00:25:58,490 --> 00:25:54,000
lunch

544
00:26:00,830 --> 00:25:58,500
to 12 30.

545
00:26:03,769 --> 00:26:00,840
at 12 30 we'll resume

546
00:26:06,649 --> 00:26:03,779
and we'll have presentations by members

547
00:26:10,370 --> 00:26:06,659
of the panel on some preliminary ideas

548
00:26:12,230 --> 00:26:10,380
for discussion and that will be a period

549
00:26:13,549 --> 00:26:12,240
of time for some open discussion by the

550
00:26:16,430 --> 00:26:13,559
panel

551
00:26:18,710 --> 00:26:16,440
we will then have a q a session based on

552
00:26:21,470 --> 00:26:18,720
questions that have been sent in in

553
00:26:23,390 --> 00:26:21,480
advance uh to the website and we've

554
00:26:25,549 --> 00:26:23,400
curated those questions and grouped them

555
00:26:27,409 --> 00:26:25,559
together and we'll be going through a

556
00:26:29,149 --> 00:26:27,419
lot of those questions and then we'll

557
00:26:32,990 --> 00:26:29,159
summarize

558
00:26:35,570 --> 00:26:33,000
and then over the subsequent uh couple

559
00:26:38,330 --> 00:26:35,580
months we'll work on putting together

560
00:26:40,789 --> 00:26:38,340
the report and as Dan said we're aiming

561
00:26:43,190 --> 00:26:40,799
to make a public report available we

562
00:26:46,730 --> 00:26:43,200
hope by the end of July

563
00:26:49,250 --> 00:26:46,740
so uh now let me turn this over to Sean

564
00:26:50,990 --> 00:26:49,260
Uncle Patrick oh hang on wait we'll do a

565
00:26:53,149 --> 00:26:51,000
couple q and A's probably some Q A's for

566
00:26:55,310 --> 00:26:53,159
me okay from the panel any any questions

567
00:27:05,210 --> 00:26:55,320
on the panel

568
00:27:09,769 --> 00:27:06,169
yeah

569
00:27:12,769 --> 00:27:09,779
um so one of the things I think Dr Fox

570
00:27:15,169 --> 00:27:12,779
um said was looking at the release of

571
00:27:18,049 --> 00:27:15,179
data very important for our study when

572
00:27:21,230 --> 00:27:18,059
it's high quality and you have also

573
00:27:23,570 --> 00:27:21,240
commented that data are not always

574
00:27:25,970 --> 00:27:23,580
perfect when we're doing certain studies

575
00:27:29,330 --> 00:27:25,980
I wonder if you could

576
00:27:31,730 --> 00:27:29,340
um shed some light on the you know the

577
00:27:33,169 --> 00:27:31,740
difference between the application of

578
00:27:36,070 --> 00:27:33,179
certain data to certain scientific

579
00:27:44,269 --> 00:27:41,149
so you know when you look at your camera

580
00:27:46,130 --> 00:27:44,279
your camera is often designed to take an

581
00:27:48,409 --> 00:27:46,140
image in the daytime

582
00:27:49,909 --> 00:27:48,419
and might not be optimized for nighttime

583
00:27:52,190 --> 00:27:49,919
Imaging

584
00:27:55,190 --> 00:27:52,200
or if you take something that

585
00:27:58,850 --> 00:27:55,200
astronomers are very familiar with is we

586
00:28:03,649 --> 00:27:58,860
design our telescopes to work at night

587
00:28:05,570 --> 00:28:03,659
and if the Sun is not even if you can

588
00:28:07,909 --> 00:28:05,580
you know you would never take the Hubble

589
00:28:10,610 --> 00:28:07,919
telescope and point it at the Sun

590
00:28:13,730 --> 00:28:10,620
this would destroy its detectors

591
00:28:15,409 --> 00:28:13,740
not only that if the telescope is

592
00:28:18,169 --> 00:28:15,419
pointing there

593
00:28:20,409 --> 00:28:18,179
and the Sun is over there even though

594
00:28:23,090 --> 00:28:20,419
you're not looking at the sun

595
00:28:25,750 --> 00:28:23,100
Reflections off of the Optics will

596
00:28:30,049 --> 00:28:25,760
produce what we call ghosting

597
00:28:32,210 --> 00:28:30,059
and that kind of ghosting gets produces

598
00:28:34,970 --> 00:28:32,220
some very strange images

599
00:28:37,190 --> 00:28:34,980
and this you know one of the many things

600
00:28:40,789 --> 00:28:37,200
we need to worry about when we see

601
00:28:43,070 --> 00:28:40,799
unusual things taken from a camera

602
00:28:44,149 --> 00:28:43,080
is even if you're pointing the camera

603
00:28:49,070 --> 00:28:44,159
there

604
00:28:51,769 --> 00:28:49,080
those kinds of anomalies degrade the

605
00:28:53,289 --> 00:28:51,779
quality of the data and that's why it's

606
00:28:55,490 --> 00:28:53,299
very important to work with

607
00:28:58,610 --> 00:28:55,500
well-characterized instruments

608
00:29:00,470 --> 00:28:58,620
and to be you know using them in ways in

609
00:29:01,490 --> 00:29:00,480
which you you understand what what's

610
00:29:04,850 --> 00:29:01,500
going on

611
00:29:07,970 --> 00:29:04,860
so I think if you look at

612
00:29:09,710 --> 00:29:07,980
you know data taken from the James Webb

613
00:29:11,090 --> 00:29:09,720
Telescope or from the Hubble or any of

614
00:29:13,789 --> 00:29:11,100
these things and you sort of you know

615
00:29:16,730 --> 00:29:13,799
telescopes looking out in space you'll

616
00:29:18,049 --> 00:29:16,740
see some really you know at first funny

617
00:29:21,590 --> 00:29:18,059
phenomenon

618
00:29:22,490 --> 00:29:21,600
when a telescope points at a star that's

619
00:29:25,909 --> 00:29:22,500
bright

620
00:29:28,430 --> 00:29:25,919
it saturates the detector and puts

621
00:29:30,590 --> 00:29:28,440
bleeding down the detector

622
00:29:35,149 --> 00:29:30,600
and you'll see phenomenon like if

623
00:29:38,210 --> 00:29:35,159
there's a bright star off to the side

624
00:29:40,970 --> 00:29:38,220
of the not even one you're looking at

625
00:29:43,610 --> 00:29:40,980
you get this of the effects where light

626
00:29:47,930 --> 00:29:43,620
bounces off of dust

627
00:29:50,510 --> 00:29:47,940
in your telescope and produces a sort of

628
00:29:52,130 --> 00:29:50,520
diffuse image that has some really

629
00:29:54,230 --> 00:29:52,140
strange properties

630
00:29:57,950 --> 00:29:54,240
so you know when you

631
00:30:00,110 --> 00:29:57,960
see something unusual the first thing

632
00:30:01,610 --> 00:30:00,120
you have to do is understand how that

633
00:30:04,310 --> 00:30:01,620
data was taken

634
00:30:07,490 --> 00:30:04,320
and I think this is one of the

635
00:30:10,669 --> 00:30:07,500
challenges one faces when you have data

636
00:30:13,909 --> 00:30:10,679
taken by uncalibrated instruments

637
00:30:15,889 --> 00:30:13,919
years ago it's very hard to know what's

638
00:30:17,450 --> 00:30:15,899
taken it's very hard to draw conclusions

639
00:30:22,990 --> 00:30:17,460
I think that's one of the challenges

640
00:30:25,789 --> 00:30:23,000
with archival data and I think having

641
00:30:28,130 --> 00:30:25,799
dedicated well-calibrated instruments I

642
00:30:31,370 --> 00:30:28,140
think will be important here is in any

643
00:30:35,090 --> 00:30:31,380
other area to understand what's going on

644
00:30:38,090 --> 00:30:35,100
so David anomalies are so often the

645
00:30:40,070 --> 00:30:38,100
engine of Discovery maybe you could say

646
00:30:42,409 --> 00:30:40,080
a quick word about high risk High reward

647
00:30:44,690 --> 00:30:42,419
research in your field of cosmology and

648
00:30:45,889 --> 00:30:44,700
how you see that impacting the UAP study

649
00:30:47,269 --> 00:30:45,899
as well

650
00:30:49,850 --> 00:30:47,279
so

651
00:30:54,830 --> 00:30:53,570
an area that comes to mind is fast radio

652
00:30:58,490 --> 00:30:54,840
bursts

653
00:30:59,930 --> 00:30:58,500
and uh Shaw prize was just announced

654
00:31:02,090 --> 00:30:59,940
yesterday

655
00:31:04,310 --> 00:31:02,100
I'm rewarded to the discovery of fast

656
00:31:06,110 --> 00:31:04,320
radial bursts and these are these

657
00:31:08,990 --> 00:31:06,120
bursting signals

658
00:31:12,250 --> 00:31:09,000
that go off all over in space

659
00:31:15,169 --> 00:31:12,260
and it's an interesting story because

660
00:31:18,169 --> 00:31:15,179
some of the bursts were real

661
00:31:19,430 --> 00:31:18,179
and are fascinating and some of the

662
00:31:24,710 --> 00:31:19,440
births

663
00:31:27,710 --> 00:31:24,720
this observatory in Australia

664
00:31:29,810 --> 00:31:27,720
and they had really strange structure

665
00:31:31,850 --> 00:31:29,820
and people couldn't figure out what was

666
00:31:33,769 --> 00:31:31,860
going on

667
00:31:37,430 --> 00:31:33,779
and then they start to notice a lot of

668
00:31:41,870 --> 00:31:37,440
them bunched together around lunchtime

669
00:31:44,149 --> 00:31:41,880
and what had happened was the uh

670
00:31:46,370 --> 00:31:44,159
people at the observatory would heat up

671
00:31:48,409 --> 00:31:46,380
their lunch in the microwave

672
00:31:50,090 --> 00:31:48,419
and something they would do is they

673
00:31:51,169 --> 00:31:50,100
would open the door of the microwave

674
00:31:53,710 --> 00:31:51,179
oven

675
00:31:56,330 --> 00:31:53,720
before the

676
00:31:59,230 --> 00:31:56,340
microwave stopped

677
00:32:02,750 --> 00:31:59,240
this is bad for your microwave oven

678
00:32:05,810 --> 00:32:02,760
it wears it out but not only that It

679
00:32:07,310 --> 00:32:05,820
produced a burst of radio signals that

680
00:32:09,710 --> 00:32:07,320
was picked up by these sensitive

681
00:32:12,289 --> 00:32:09,720
detectors so

682
00:32:14,570 --> 00:32:12,299
this I think is an interesting lesson

683
00:32:17,690 --> 00:32:14,580
some events end up being something

684
00:32:21,049 --> 00:32:17,700
unusual and conventional

685
00:32:24,370 --> 00:32:21,059
but some events with these frbs turn out

686
00:32:27,350 --> 00:32:24,380
to be these powerful explosions

687
00:32:29,289 --> 00:32:27,360
which are taking place at cosmological

688
00:32:32,389 --> 00:32:29,299
distances

689
00:32:33,730 --> 00:32:32,399
their nature is still not fully

690
00:32:35,990 --> 00:32:33,740
understood

691
00:32:38,389 --> 00:32:36,000
I think that one of the really most

692
00:32:40,870 --> 00:32:38,399
fascinating objects we have these bursts

693
00:32:43,610 --> 00:32:40,880
going out all over space

694
00:32:45,350 --> 00:32:43,620
they're interesting probes because

695
00:32:48,230 --> 00:32:45,360
they're kind of lighting up space

696
00:32:50,450 --> 00:32:48,240
between here and there and they're a

697
00:32:52,310 --> 00:32:50,460
subject of a reactive research

698
00:32:55,730 --> 00:32:52,320
and if I you know one looks at the

699
00:32:58,310 --> 00:32:55,740
history of these frbs at first they were

700
00:33:00,830 --> 00:32:58,320
discovered not believed and confinedly

701
00:33:02,690 --> 00:33:00,840
confirmed and they were discovered by

702
00:33:04,610 --> 00:33:02,700
instruments that were very sensitive but

703
00:33:07,130 --> 00:33:04,620
not optimized for this

704
00:33:09,409 --> 00:33:07,140
and now what we're doing is we're

705
00:33:13,070 --> 00:33:09,419
optimizing instruments and optimizing

706
00:33:16,190 --> 00:33:13,080
software to look for these events and

707
00:33:17,810 --> 00:33:16,200
it's often these surprises that turn out

708
00:33:21,830 --> 00:33:17,820
to be most interesting

709
00:33:23,810 --> 00:33:21,840
and you know there are phenomenon like

710
00:33:25,490 --> 00:33:23,820
Sprites which you can think of as upward

711
00:33:29,269 --> 00:33:25,500
going lightning

712
00:33:31,250 --> 00:33:29,279
which were seen by commercial pilots and

713
00:33:33,409 --> 00:33:31,260
somewhat not believed right because they

714
00:33:36,169 --> 00:33:33,419
were very strange and then and it was

715
00:33:39,649 --> 00:33:36,179
really only when we were able to take

716
00:33:41,409 --> 00:33:39,659
very high speed Imaging data data taken

717
00:33:45,649 --> 00:33:41,419
often from places like space station

718
00:33:48,110 --> 00:33:45,659
that we're able to see that and learn

719
00:33:51,289 --> 00:33:48,120
about these some fascinating ionospheric

720
00:33:53,029 --> 00:33:51,299
phenomena so it's uh surprises are

721
00:33:53,930 --> 00:33:53,039
really interesting I mean I think this

722
00:33:56,029 --> 00:33:53,940
is

723
00:33:59,330 --> 00:33:56,039
one of the

724
00:34:01,190 --> 00:33:59,340
uh fascinating things about the UAP

725
00:34:02,630 --> 00:34:01,200
phenomenon if it's something that's

726
00:34:04,850 --> 00:34:02,640
anomalous

727
00:34:07,490 --> 00:34:04,860
that makes it interesting and worthy of

728
00:34:10,310 --> 00:34:08,930
other questions

729
00:34:23,149 --> 00:34:10,320
great

730
00:34:27,230 --> 00:34:25,310
thank you David and

731
00:34:29,089 --> 00:34:27,240
pleasure to be back good morning

732
00:34:32,030 --> 00:34:29,099
everyone I want to start by thanking

733
00:34:34,490 --> 00:34:32,040
NASA for convening today's UAP

734
00:34:37,129 --> 00:34:34,500
independent study public meeting and

735
00:34:39,589 --> 00:34:37,139
inviting me to continue to participate

736
00:34:41,750 --> 00:34:39,599
NASA has been an invaluable partner to

737
00:34:44,149 --> 00:34:41,760
our team at Arrow as we work to better

738
00:34:46,550 --> 00:34:44,159
understand and respond to unidentified

739
00:34:48,950 --> 00:34:46,560
anomalous phenomena

740
00:34:50,869 --> 00:34:48,960
we applaud NASA for commissioning its

741
00:34:53,210 --> 00:34:50,879
independent study team and for exploring

742
00:34:56,149 --> 00:34:53,220
what data and tools could be leveraged

743
00:34:58,670 --> 00:34:56,159
to shed greater light on UAP

744
00:35:01,670 --> 00:34:58,680
though NASA and arrow are taking on very

745
00:35:03,550 --> 00:35:01,680
different aspects of the UAP problem set

746
00:35:06,050 --> 00:35:03,560
our efforts are very much complementary

747
00:35:08,930 --> 00:35:06,060
we both are committed to the scientific

748
00:35:10,970 --> 00:35:08,940
method to a data-driven approach

749
00:35:12,770 --> 00:35:10,980
and the highest standards of scientific

750
00:35:15,170 --> 00:35:12,780
research integrity

751
00:35:18,890 --> 00:35:15,180
while NASA is evaluating unclassified

752
00:35:21,950 --> 00:35:18,900
data sources for its study arrows data

753
00:35:24,530 --> 00:35:21,960
set includes classified material with a

754
00:35:27,589 --> 00:35:24,540
focus on National Security areas

755
00:35:29,329 --> 00:35:27,599
however all of this data collectively is

756
00:35:31,870 --> 00:35:29,339
critical to understanding the nature and

757
00:35:34,370 --> 00:35:31,880
origin of UAP

758
00:35:37,430 --> 00:35:34,380
NASA brings unique capabilities

759
00:35:40,730 --> 00:35:37,440
world-class scientists and a wealth of

760
00:35:43,190 --> 00:35:40,740
academic and research linkages

761
00:35:44,450 --> 00:35:43,200
NASA also has access to Earth sensing

762
00:35:46,730 --> 00:35:44,460
satellites

763
00:35:48,650 --> 00:35:46,740
radiological sensors tools for

764
00:35:51,290 --> 00:35:48,660
gravitational wave geomagnetic wave

765
00:35:53,630 --> 00:35:51,300
detection and means for analyzing open

766
00:35:55,970 --> 00:35:53,640
source cloud and crowdsourced data that

767
00:35:58,069 --> 00:35:55,980
may assist both Aero and NASA in their

768
00:36:00,109 --> 00:35:58,079
UAP efforts

769
00:36:03,109 --> 00:36:00,119
we are very grateful for the partnership

770
00:36:04,970 --> 00:36:03,119
and welcome the opportunity to join with

771
00:36:06,950 --> 00:36:04,980
NASA to share our Collective findings

772
00:36:09,470 --> 00:36:06,960
with the public as the U.S government

773
00:36:11,230 --> 00:36:09,480
moves towards greater transparency on

774
00:36:14,030 --> 00:36:11,240
this issue

775
00:36:16,010 --> 00:36:14,040
last month I testified before members of

776
00:36:18,170 --> 00:36:16,020
the Senate armed services committee on

777
00:36:20,870 --> 00:36:18,180
emerging threats and capabilities

778
00:36:24,530 --> 00:36:20,880
and shared some of the progress made

779
00:36:26,390 --> 00:36:24,540
since Arrow's establishment in July 2022

780
00:36:28,069 --> 00:36:26,400
I discussed arrows scientific and

781
00:36:30,710 --> 00:36:28,079
analytic approaches

782
00:36:32,930 --> 00:36:30,720
its efforts to improve UAP data

783
00:36:36,050 --> 00:36:32,940
collection standardize our reporting

784
00:36:38,150 --> 00:36:36,060
processes leverage our Partnerships and

785
00:36:40,970 --> 00:36:38,160
meticulously review the US government's

786
00:36:43,430 --> 00:36:40,980
UAP related historical records

787
00:36:46,490 --> 00:36:43,440
as I told the subcommittee then the

788
00:36:48,589 --> 00:36:46,500
resolution of all UAP cases cannot be

789
00:36:50,270 --> 00:36:48,599
accomplished by DOD and the intelligence

790
00:36:52,190 --> 00:36:50,280
Community alone

791
00:36:54,470 --> 00:36:52,200
era's ultimate success will require

792
00:36:57,530 --> 00:36:54,480
Partnerships with the interagency

793
00:37:00,109 --> 00:36:57,540
industry Academia the scientific

794
00:37:02,390 --> 00:37:00,119
community and the public

795
00:37:06,050 --> 00:37:02,400
which all bring their own resources

796
00:37:09,230 --> 00:37:06,060
ideas and expertise to the UAP challenge

797
00:37:09,950 --> 00:37:09,240
We Believe robust collaboration and peer

798
00:37:12,050 --> 00:37:09,960
review

799
00:37:13,670 --> 00:37:12,060
across a broad range of Partners will

800
00:37:16,730 --> 00:37:13,680
promote greater objectivity and

801
00:37:19,310 --> 00:37:16,740
transparency in the study of UAP

802
00:37:21,109 --> 00:37:19,320
of course NASA's UAP independent study

803
00:37:22,550 --> 00:37:21,119
team was convened very much in that

804
00:37:25,130 --> 00:37:22,560
spirit

805
00:37:27,470 --> 00:37:25,140
I also emphasized to Congress that the

806
00:37:30,170 --> 00:37:27,480
only a very small percentage of UAP

807
00:37:33,589 --> 00:37:30,180
reports displays signatures that could

808
00:37:35,990 --> 00:37:33,599
reasonably be described as anomalous

809
00:37:38,630 --> 00:37:36,000
the majority of unidentified objects

810
00:37:41,690 --> 00:37:38,640
reported to Arrow and in our Holdings

811
00:37:44,030 --> 00:37:41,700
demonstrate mundane characteristics of

812
00:37:46,370 --> 00:37:44,040
readily explainable sources

813
00:37:48,589 --> 00:37:46,380
while a large number of cases in arrows

814
00:37:51,829 --> 00:37:48,599
Holdings remain technically unresolved

815
00:37:54,230 --> 00:37:51,839
this is primarily due to a lack of data

816
00:37:56,630 --> 00:37:54,240
associated with those cases

817
00:37:58,750 --> 00:37:56,640
very much along the lines of what David

818
00:38:01,609 --> 00:37:58,760
was just speaking about

819
00:38:03,770 --> 00:38:01,619
sufficient data we are unable to reach

820
00:38:05,450 --> 00:38:03,780
defendable conclusions that meet the

821
00:38:07,130 --> 00:38:05,460
high scientific standards we set for

822
00:38:09,410 --> 00:38:07,140
resolution

823
00:38:11,089 --> 00:38:09,420
meanwhile for the few objects that do

824
00:38:13,490 --> 00:38:11,099
demonstrate potentially anomalous

825
00:38:15,410 --> 00:38:13,500
characteristics arrows approaching these

826
00:38:18,829 --> 00:38:15,420
cases with the highest level

827
00:38:20,990 --> 00:38:18,839
of objectivity and analytic rigor this

828
00:38:23,810 --> 00:38:21,000
includes physical testing and employing

829
00:38:26,810 --> 00:38:23,820
modeling and simulation to validate our

830
00:38:28,609 --> 00:38:26,820
analyzes and the underlying theories and

831
00:38:30,890 --> 00:38:28,619
then peer-reviewing those results before

832
00:38:33,170 --> 00:38:30,900
reaching any conclusions

833
00:38:35,810 --> 00:38:33,180
Arrow has shared these cases with the

834
00:38:38,150 --> 00:38:35,820
appropriately cleared NASA team members

835
00:38:41,150 --> 00:38:38,160
in order to discuss and help recommend

836
00:38:43,250 --> 00:38:41,160
potential scientific areas of study that

837
00:38:45,530 --> 00:38:43,260
NASA may want to take lead on

838
00:38:47,569 --> 00:38:45,540
I'll underscore here as I did before

839
00:38:50,210 --> 00:38:47,579
Congress at arrows work will take time

840
00:38:51,950 --> 00:38:50,220
if we are committed to doing it right

841
00:38:53,450 --> 00:38:51,960
arrow is committed to the highest

842
00:38:56,089 --> 00:38:53,460
standards of scientific research

843
00:38:57,890 --> 00:38:56,099
Integrity as we know our partners at

844
00:38:59,750 --> 00:38:57,900
Nasa are as well

845
00:39:01,910 --> 00:38:59,760
thanks again to NASA for hosting this

846
00:39:04,069 --> 00:39:01,920
public forum for UAP discussion and

847
00:39:06,170 --> 00:39:04,079
information exchange and I'd like to

848
00:39:08,150 --> 00:39:06,180
turn to a brief presentation that

849
00:39:12,470 --> 00:39:08,160
includes some recently Declassified

850
00:39:15,829 --> 00:39:12,480
footage and trends for discussion

851
00:39:22,190 --> 00:39:18,710
so some of you probably saw a version of

852
00:39:23,650 --> 00:39:22,200
this at the open hearing last month this

853
00:39:26,510 --> 00:39:23,660
is an overall

854
00:39:28,910 --> 00:39:26,520
review of all the analytic trends of all

855
00:39:31,849 --> 00:39:28,920
the cases that we have to date while the

856
00:39:34,750 --> 00:39:31,859
numbers may have changed a little bit

857
00:39:38,510 --> 00:39:34,760
uh the overall Trends remain the same

858
00:39:41,150 --> 00:39:38,520
most of what we are seeing reported by

859
00:39:43,430 --> 00:39:41,160
aircraft are at the altitudes where we

860
00:39:44,630 --> 00:39:43,440
fly aircraft that should not be a

861
00:39:46,910 --> 00:39:44,640
surprise

862
00:39:49,430 --> 00:39:46,920
you will note however that I have no

863
00:39:51,349 --> 00:39:49,440
space reports and I have no Maritime

864
00:39:53,510 --> 00:39:51,359
reports

865
00:39:56,150 --> 00:39:53,520
that is notable even though we are

866
00:39:58,870 --> 00:39:56,160
looking across all of those domains

867
00:40:01,730 --> 00:39:58,880
on the upper right we have UAP

868
00:40:03,710 --> 00:40:01,740
morphologies the vast majority of what

869
00:40:04,430 --> 00:40:03,720
has been reported and what we have data

870
00:40:08,329 --> 00:40:04,440
on

871
00:40:10,569 --> 00:40:08,339
a little less than half now are orbs

872
00:40:14,030 --> 00:40:10,579
round spheres

873
00:40:16,910 --> 00:40:14,040
and in the bottom right you will see in

874
00:40:19,250 --> 00:40:16,920
the really the the Heats map of the

875
00:40:21,829 --> 00:40:19,260
areas where we get most of our reporting

876
00:40:24,890 --> 00:40:21,839
this is very much a collection biased

877
00:40:28,730 --> 00:40:24,900
map this is where our sensors are our

878
00:40:30,290 --> 00:40:28,740
military and our IC and some of the FAA

879
00:40:33,410 --> 00:40:30,300
data

880
00:40:36,170 --> 00:40:33,420
in the middle which is what we call our

881
00:40:38,390 --> 00:40:36,180
typical UAP characteristics for the vast

882
00:40:41,270 --> 00:40:38,400
majority of the cases that we see

883
00:40:43,609 --> 00:40:41,280
one way of looking at that is a is a

884
00:40:46,790 --> 00:40:43,619
we'll call it a Target package this is

885
00:40:48,950 --> 00:40:46,800
the thing we are out hunting for in most

886
00:40:53,510 --> 00:40:48,960
cases

887
00:40:58,730 --> 00:40:55,910
this is an example of one that I showed

888
00:41:01,190 --> 00:40:58,740
at the hearing recently this is a

889
00:41:05,390 --> 00:41:01,200
spherical orb metallic in the Middle

890
00:41:07,010 --> 00:41:05,400
East 2022 by an MQ-9

891
00:41:08,810 --> 00:41:07,020
and we'll come back to the sensor

892
00:41:10,130 --> 00:41:08,820
question that David raised here in a

893
00:41:12,829 --> 00:41:10,140
moment

894
00:41:15,650 --> 00:41:12,839
this is a typical example of the thing

895
00:41:18,890 --> 00:41:15,660
that we see most of we see these all

896
00:41:21,710 --> 00:41:18,900
over the world and we see these in and

897
00:41:25,069 --> 00:41:21,720
making very interesting

898
00:41:29,870 --> 00:41:27,290
this one in particular however I would

899
00:41:32,450 --> 00:41:29,880
point out demonstrated no enigmatic

900
00:41:34,790 --> 00:41:32,460
technical capabilities and was no threat

901
00:41:37,010 --> 00:41:34,800
to Airborne safety

902
00:41:39,349 --> 00:41:37,020
while we are still looking at it I don't

903
00:41:41,390 --> 00:41:39,359
have any more data other than that

904
00:41:44,569 --> 00:41:41,400
and so being able to come to some

905
00:41:47,089 --> 00:41:44,579
conclusion is going to take time until

906
00:41:49,730 --> 00:41:47,099
we can get better resolved data on

907
00:41:51,950 --> 00:41:49,740
similar objects that we can then do a

908
00:41:55,490 --> 00:41:51,960
larger analysis on

909
00:42:01,670 --> 00:41:57,950
I'm going to let this play through this

910
00:42:04,310 --> 00:42:01,680
is a newly released video you'll notice

911
00:42:06,650 --> 00:42:04,320
there are two dots moving back and forth

912
00:42:08,630 --> 00:42:06,660
there is a plane at the bottom that's

913
00:42:11,030 --> 00:42:08,640
moving across the screen and now there

914
00:42:14,089 --> 00:42:11,040
are three dots moving back and forth

915
00:42:15,650 --> 00:42:14,099
the moving back and forth is from the

916
00:42:19,970 --> 00:42:15,660
sensor and the platform that's

917
00:42:21,470 --> 00:42:19,980
collecting it this is a a P3 on a

918
00:42:24,170 --> 00:42:21,480
training mission in the Western United

919
00:42:26,630 --> 00:42:24,180
States they picked these up and they

920
00:42:28,490 --> 00:42:26,640
tried to intercept and was unable to

921
00:42:31,310 --> 00:42:28,500
intercept them

922
00:42:34,010 --> 00:42:31,320
apart from that motion and you'll see a

923
00:42:34,930 --> 00:42:34,020
little bit of defocusing from the sensor

924
00:42:37,490 --> 00:42:34,940
itself

925
00:42:40,370 --> 00:42:37,500
there is no other

926
00:42:42,650 --> 00:42:40,380
Oddity about this except for the fact

927
00:42:44,210 --> 00:42:42,660
that they couldn't catch them the reason

928
00:42:47,270 --> 00:42:44,220
they couldn't catch them is because

929
00:42:49,609 --> 00:42:47,280
after further analysis it was shown that

930
00:42:52,490 --> 00:42:49,619
those objects were actually much farther

931
00:42:54,650 --> 00:42:52,500
away from the P3 than they thought

932
00:42:56,810 --> 00:42:54,660
and in fact when we went even deeper

933
00:42:59,329 --> 00:42:56,820
looked at Air Traffic Control Data we

934
00:43:02,809 --> 00:42:59,339
were able to match those to aircraft on

935
00:43:05,210 --> 00:43:02,819
a major flight Corridor heading into a

936
00:43:09,170 --> 00:43:05,220
major airport for landing

937
00:43:12,290 --> 00:43:09,180
this is the kind of thing that can

938
00:43:15,530 --> 00:43:12,300
spoof and or provide misperception of

939
00:43:17,030 --> 00:43:15,540
both very highly trained pilots as well

940
00:43:20,450 --> 00:43:17,040
as sensors

941
00:43:23,270 --> 00:43:20,460
right and this was reported as an odd

942
00:43:24,470 --> 00:43:23,280
grouping of three UAP

943
00:43:27,170 --> 00:43:24,480
all right

944
00:43:29,510 --> 00:43:27,180
that is not to say that the pilots

945
00:43:31,430 --> 00:43:29,520
didn't know what they were looking at or

946
00:43:33,950 --> 00:43:31,440
they they knew what they were looking at

947
00:43:36,050 --> 00:43:33,960
but they weren't really sure but it also

948
00:43:37,849 --> 00:43:36,060
is meant to say that when they're not

949
00:43:39,530 --> 00:43:37,859
sure they're reporting it now and that's

950
00:43:41,430 --> 00:43:39,540
what they're supposed to be doing and

951
00:43:43,010 --> 00:43:41,440
then we have to go look at it

952
00:43:46,370 --> 00:43:43,020
[Music]

953
00:43:49,970 --> 00:43:48,410
that brings us to really what is Arrow

954
00:43:52,010 --> 00:43:49,980
doing in the science and Technical

955
00:43:53,109 --> 00:43:52,020
Realms so this is one of those areas

956
00:43:55,190 --> 00:43:53,119
that

957
00:43:58,690 --> 00:43:55,200
I'm going to expound a little bit more

958
00:44:01,250 --> 00:43:58,700
on than we did in the last hearings

959
00:44:03,829 --> 00:44:01,260
Arrow has a

960
00:44:05,930 --> 00:44:03,839
robust scientific plan that we are

961
00:44:08,470 --> 00:44:05,940
required to then provide to Congress

962
00:44:10,730 --> 00:44:08,480
here pretty soon

963
00:44:12,890 --> 00:44:10,740
one of the first things that we're doing

964
00:44:15,890 --> 00:44:12,900
is looking across all the existing

965
00:44:18,470 --> 00:44:15,900
sensor data against that typical UAP

966
00:44:21,829 --> 00:44:18,480
Target that I gave you up at the very

967
00:44:23,870 --> 00:44:21,839
first slide that goes beyond DOD and IC

968
00:44:26,089 --> 00:44:23,880
sensors that's commercial that's civil

969
00:44:29,410 --> 00:44:26,099
that's in and with partnership with NASA

970
00:44:31,910 --> 00:44:29,420
with NASA sensors and NOAA sensors

971
00:44:34,490 --> 00:44:31,920
understanding if any of these Earth

972
00:44:36,589 --> 00:44:34,500
sensing satellites any of these Airborne

973
00:44:38,930 --> 00:44:36,599
platforms any of these ground Radars

974
00:44:40,970 --> 00:44:38,940
whether it's FAA or other can actually

975
00:44:43,730 --> 00:44:40,980
see these things

976
00:44:45,170 --> 00:44:43,740
given what we've got so far is going to

977
00:44:46,790 --> 00:44:45,180
be an important first step to

978
00:44:49,490 --> 00:44:46,800
understanding which sensors are going to

979
00:44:54,410 --> 00:44:52,250
from there we will we are augmenting

980
00:44:57,589 --> 00:44:54,420
with dedicated sensors that we've

981
00:44:59,930 --> 00:44:57,599
purpose built designed to detect track

982
00:45:02,450 --> 00:44:59,940
and characterize those particular

983
00:45:05,349 --> 00:45:02,460
objects we will be then putting those

984
00:45:08,030 --> 00:45:05,359
out in very select areas for

985
00:45:10,910 --> 00:45:08,040
surveillance purposes

986
00:45:13,130 --> 00:45:10,920
Partnerships with Academia exploring the

987
00:45:15,589 --> 00:45:13,140
signatures to match to our data so

988
00:45:18,109 --> 00:45:15,599
understanding if a thing is moving and

989
00:45:19,609 --> 00:45:18,119
if it is doing certain anomalous

990
00:45:21,770 --> 00:45:19,619
activities what are the signatures we

991
00:45:24,650 --> 00:45:21,780
would expect to see how do we pull on

992
00:45:26,750 --> 00:45:24,660
that and then from there how do I tune

993
00:45:28,130 --> 00:45:26,760
my collection architecture to go after

994
00:45:30,230 --> 00:45:28,140
it

995
00:45:32,270 --> 00:45:30,240
statistical analytic techniques we're

996
00:45:34,250 --> 00:45:32,280
working with a couple of universities on

997
00:45:37,309 --> 00:45:34,260
how do I do broader base statistical

998
00:45:39,470 --> 00:45:37,319
analysis on unclassified and classified

999
00:45:41,990 --> 00:45:39,480
data so that I can apply those analytics

1000
00:45:44,690 --> 00:45:42,000
to our Holdings

1001
00:45:47,750 --> 00:45:44,700
and then Ai and ml analytic techniques

1002
00:45:49,730 --> 00:45:47,760
for searching out through the data what

1003
00:45:52,670 --> 00:45:49,740
are this what are the objects what are

1004
00:45:55,250 --> 00:45:52,680
the targets that we're going after

1005
00:45:57,650 --> 00:45:55,260
we have Partnerships with both DOD and

1006
00:45:59,809 --> 00:45:57,660
doe labs to explore our current

1007
00:46:01,910 --> 00:45:59,819
state-of-the-art fundamental physics of

1008
00:46:04,130 --> 00:46:01,920
UAP observations

1009
00:46:06,650 --> 00:46:04,140
both current and historical in other

1010
00:46:09,109 --> 00:46:06,660
words if I have objects those few that

1011
00:46:11,870 --> 00:46:09,119
are doing some things that are anomalous

1012
00:46:14,089 --> 00:46:11,880
what is our current understanding of

1013
00:46:15,670 --> 00:46:14,099
maneuverability

1014
00:46:18,290 --> 00:46:15,680
speed

1015
00:46:21,050 --> 00:46:18,300
signature management

1016
00:46:22,790 --> 00:46:21,060
propulsion what are those underlying

1017
00:46:26,630 --> 00:46:22,800
signatures that we would expect to see

1018
00:46:28,730 --> 00:46:26,640
and how do I then pull on that

1019
00:46:30,829 --> 00:46:28,740
our interagency and Allied partnership

1020
00:46:32,809 --> 00:46:30,839
ships for calibration of our

1021
00:46:35,750 --> 00:46:32,819
capabilities this is exactly what David

1022
00:46:37,970 --> 00:46:35,760
was pointing at the vast majority of

1023
00:46:41,030 --> 00:46:37,980
what we have reported to us are DOD

1024
00:46:42,890 --> 00:46:41,040
sensors DOD sensors are not scientific

1025
00:46:45,170 --> 00:46:42,900
sensors they are not intelligence

1026
00:46:47,089 --> 00:46:45,180
Community sensors Believe It or Not

1027
00:46:49,010 --> 00:46:47,099
intelligence Community sensors are very

1028
00:46:51,050 --> 00:46:49,020
close to Scientific sensors they are

1029
00:46:53,150 --> 00:46:51,060
calibrated they are high Precision they

1030
00:46:55,370 --> 00:46:53,160
are everything you'd ever want to know

1031
00:46:58,370 --> 00:46:55,380
about a thing

1032
00:47:01,430 --> 00:46:58,380
DOD sensors have one purpose they are to

1033
00:47:02,750 --> 00:47:01,440
identify an object that is known and put

1034
00:47:04,849 --> 00:47:02,760
a weapon on it

1035
00:47:07,730 --> 00:47:04,859
that is what they're for right

1036
00:47:09,710 --> 00:47:07,740
predominantly so understanding how do

1037
00:47:12,890 --> 00:47:09,720
you calibrate those against these known

1038
00:47:15,109 --> 00:47:12,900
objects how do I fly in F-35 against a

1039
00:47:16,730 --> 00:47:15,119
weather balloon at different speeds and

1040
00:47:18,829 --> 00:47:16,740
different altitudes and different Sun

1041
00:47:20,870 --> 00:47:18,839
conditions and different lighting

1042
00:47:23,329 --> 00:47:20,880
conditions and and heating conditions

1043
00:47:25,430 --> 00:47:23,339
those are all important measurements

1044
00:47:28,609 --> 00:47:25,440
that need to be done and we are on the

1045
00:47:30,829 --> 00:47:28,619
in process of doing that right now that

1046
00:47:33,530 --> 00:47:30,839
table on the right is a very simplified

1047
00:47:35,510 --> 00:47:33,540
version of our entire test Matrix which

1048
00:47:38,089 --> 00:47:35,520
you would not be able to fit on three of

1049
00:47:41,870 --> 00:47:38,099
these slides against all of our sensors

1050
00:47:43,730 --> 00:47:41,880
across all of those phenomenologies

1051
00:47:46,309 --> 00:47:43,740
that will be useful in order to then

1052
00:47:49,069 --> 00:47:46,319
train our operators pilots and sensors

1053
00:47:51,050 --> 00:47:49,079
against the known objects

1054
00:47:52,490 --> 00:47:51,060
and then finally our pattern of Life

1055
00:47:54,770 --> 00:47:52,500
analysis

1056
00:47:57,290 --> 00:47:54,780
this is essentially baselining what is

1057
00:47:59,690 --> 00:47:57,300
normal I have all these Hot Spot areas

1058
00:48:01,790 --> 00:47:59,700
but we only have hotspot areas because

1059
00:48:03,470 --> 00:48:01,800
that's when the reports come in from The

1060
00:48:04,370 --> 00:48:03,480
Operators that are operating at that

1061
00:48:11,030 --> 00:48:04,380
time

1062
00:48:14,210 --> 00:48:11,040
so to have a 24 7 collection monitoring

1063
00:48:16,490 --> 00:48:14,220
campaign in some of these areas for

1064
00:48:19,550 --> 00:48:16,500
three months at a time is going to be

1065
00:48:22,190 --> 00:48:19,560
necessary in order to measure out what

1066
00:48:23,030 --> 00:48:22,200
is normal then I'll know what is not

1067
00:48:24,710 --> 00:48:23,040
normal

1068
00:48:27,109 --> 00:48:24,720
right when we have additional things

1069
00:48:30,349 --> 00:48:27,119
that come through those spaces

1070
00:48:32,270 --> 00:48:30,359
and that includes space and maritime

1071
00:48:33,710 --> 00:48:32,280
next slide please

1072
00:48:36,170 --> 00:48:33,720
which brings me to some of my

1073
00:48:40,130 --> 00:48:36,180
recommendations for the panel and their

1074
00:48:44,930 --> 00:48:41,930
some of these we're going to be

1075
00:48:47,270 --> 00:48:44,940
exploring with our our new NASA embed

1076
00:48:49,010 --> 00:48:47,280
I'm happy to be welcoming on for your

1077
00:48:52,430 --> 00:48:49,020
pretty soon who's going to help us in

1078
00:48:56,809 --> 00:48:53,950
um

1079
00:48:58,730 --> 00:48:56,819
crowdsourcing unclassified open source

1080
00:49:01,790 --> 00:48:58,740
data this is where you know some of the

1081
00:49:05,150 --> 00:49:01,800
public can be helpful you know

1082
00:49:07,250 --> 00:49:05,160
imagery from a iPhone is generally not

1083
00:49:09,230 --> 00:49:07,260
helpful unless you are right up on

1084
00:49:12,770 --> 00:49:09,240
whatever it is you're looking at

1085
00:49:16,309 --> 00:49:12,780
however some of the ancillary data that

1086
00:49:19,390 --> 00:49:16,319
your iPhone provides from location to

1087
00:49:21,829 --> 00:49:19,400
speed to you know other

1088
00:49:23,690 --> 00:49:21,839
phenomenologies and more than one of

1089
00:49:25,030 --> 00:49:23,700
those can be very helpful

1090
00:49:27,589 --> 00:49:25,040
right

1091
00:49:30,190 --> 00:49:27,599
large-scale ground-based scientific

1092
00:49:32,150 --> 00:49:30,200
instrumentation

1093
00:49:34,190 --> 00:49:32,160
evaluating

1094
00:49:36,410 --> 00:49:34,200
how can I use some of these other

1095
00:49:40,010 --> 00:49:36,420
instruments for detection the frb

1096
00:49:41,890 --> 00:49:40,020
example was was perfect right you have a

1097
00:49:44,030 --> 00:49:41,900
bunch of large scale

1098
00:49:45,530 --> 00:49:44,040
instruments that were not designed for

1099
00:49:48,349 --> 00:49:45,540
that yet they picked them up because

1100
00:49:49,550 --> 00:49:48,359
there was a microwave

1101
00:49:53,510 --> 00:49:49,560
well

1102
00:49:56,329 --> 00:49:53,520
we have a a surrogate Target package of

1103
00:49:58,490 --> 00:49:56,339
what we think these things are at least

1104
00:50:01,329 --> 00:49:58,500
from a what we've got reported to us

1105
00:50:04,490 --> 00:50:01,339
that was in the front slide

1106
00:50:07,309 --> 00:50:04,500
understanding how can I evaluate that

1107
00:50:09,770 --> 00:50:07,319
against all of these other instruments

1108
00:50:11,390 --> 00:50:09,780
and do any of them have a chance of

1109
00:50:13,609 --> 00:50:11,400
picking anything up that would be

1110
00:50:16,609 --> 00:50:13,619
helpful in tipping and queuing us to get

1111
00:50:19,910 --> 00:50:16,619
other sensors on target

1112
00:50:21,950 --> 00:50:19,920
I think leading that evaluation of the

1113
00:50:25,010 --> 00:50:21,960
scientific ground-based sensors would be

1114
00:50:26,990 --> 00:50:25,020
useful also the same thing for the Earth

1115
00:50:30,490 --> 00:50:27,000
Sciences satellites as we mentioned

1116
00:50:38,690 --> 00:50:33,109
intentional Vice coincidental collection

1117
00:50:42,849 --> 00:50:38,700
so looking at how can I provide a tip in

1118
00:50:45,609 --> 00:50:42,859
queue to both the ground and space-based

1119
00:50:49,190 --> 00:50:45,619
scientific and academic sensor Community

1120
00:50:51,890 --> 00:50:49,200
to put additional sensors on a object

1121
00:50:55,849 --> 00:50:51,900
when it is reported I'm currently doing

1122
00:50:59,569 --> 00:50:55,859
that with arrow The Joint staff the

1123
00:51:02,930 --> 00:50:59,579
commands for when they get tipping queue

1124
00:51:05,510 --> 00:51:02,940
right so a pilot says something they see

1125
00:51:07,309 --> 00:51:05,520
something they report it in and we're

1126
00:51:09,410 --> 00:51:07,319
going to turn on a whole bunch of new

1127
00:51:11,809 --> 00:51:09,420
collection to go after it I should be

1128
00:51:14,150 --> 00:51:11,819
able to hand that same tip and cue to

1129
00:51:15,950 --> 00:51:14,160
the scientific and academic community

1130
00:51:17,329 --> 00:51:15,960
so looking at how that works would be

1131
00:51:20,750 --> 00:51:17,339
helpful

1132
00:51:22,670 --> 00:51:20,760
peer reviewing Advanced capabilities the

1133
00:51:24,049 --> 00:51:22,680
parameterization and the publication of

1134
00:51:25,609 --> 00:51:24,059
that that have not yet been engineered

1135
00:51:26,450 --> 00:51:25,619
we understand a lot of fundamental

1136
00:51:28,390 --> 00:51:26,460
physics

1137
00:51:31,490 --> 00:51:28,400
it is the scientific

1138
00:51:33,950 --> 00:51:31,500
community's responsibility to explore

1139
00:51:35,870 --> 00:51:33,960
and document those fundamentals in

1140
00:51:37,730 --> 00:51:35,880
peer-reviewed scientific journals to

1141
00:51:40,849 --> 00:51:37,740
match to data so that we can weed out

1142
00:51:43,069 --> 00:51:40,859
all kinds of different hypotheses right

1143
00:51:44,870 --> 00:51:43,079
that's how science works we need to make

1144
00:51:47,210 --> 00:51:44,880
sure that we are doing that I think

1145
00:51:49,750 --> 00:51:47,220
leading that conversation would be very

1146
00:51:52,670 --> 00:51:49,760
helpful from NASA's perspective

1147
00:51:55,870 --> 00:51:52,680
archived scientific data so we have a

1148
00:51:58,849 --> 00:51:55,880
whole bunch of calibrated large-scale

1149
00:52:02,510 --> 00:51:58,859
scientific data from all these different

1150
00:52:05,030 --> 00:52:02,520
instrumentations around the world taking

1151
00:52:08,809 --> 00:52:05,040
a look at how can you apply some maybe

1152
00:52:12,109 --> 00:52:08,819
some AIML tools to search through that

1153
00:52:14,030 --> 00:52:12,119
data for anomalous signatures that may

1154
00:52:16,069 --> 00:52:14,040
correlate to things that we've got

1155
00:52:17,770 --> 00:52:16,079
reporting on that would be an

1156
00:52:19,970 --> 00:52:17,780
interesting study

1157
00:52:21,710 --> 00:52:19,980
distributions of sightings I think this

1158
00:52:24,349 --> 00:52:21,720
is a low hanging fruit one right so if

1159
00:52:26,630 --> 00:52:24,359
we take a look at all of the

1160
00:52:28,549 --> 00:52:26,640
distributions of sightings that are

1161
00:52:30,470 --> 00:52:28,559
outside of my National Security areas

1162
00:52:31,970 --> 00:52:30,480
that I've got classified reporting for

1163
00:52:33,950 --> 00:52:31,980
and they generate the similar

1164
00:52:35,750 --> 00:52:33,960
distribution map as we've got and we put

1165
00:52:37,609 --> 00:52:35,760
those two pieces together now I have a

1166
00:52:38,990 --> 00:52:37,619
holistic picture

1167
00:52:40,970 --> 00:52:39,000
and then of course our foreign

1168
00:52:43,609 --> 00:52:40,980
Partnerships building a robust

1169
00:52:47,109 --> 00:52:43,619
scientific community of Interest review

1170
00:52:50,510 --> 00:52:47,119
data capabilities conduct analysis

1171
00:52:53,089 --> 00:52:50,520
expanding upon you know our military and

1172
00:52:55,250 --> 00:52:53,099
intelligence collaborations across the

1173
00:52:57,410 --> 00:52:55,260
world into the scientific and academic

1174
00:53:00,250 --> 00:52:57,420
world

1175
00:53:02,569 --> 00:53:00,260
and with that those were my thoughts

1176
00:53:05,270 --> 00:53:02,579
we've talked about some of these in the

1177
00:53:07,609 --> 00:53:05,280
past it would be uh interesting to to

1178
00:53:09,829 --> 00:53:07,619
hear if there's any further questions or

1179
00:53:11,630 --> 00:53:09,839
deliberations on any of those points and

1180
00:53:13,370 --> 00:53:11,640
I'm happy to take any questions that you

1181
00:53:16,250 --> 00:53:13,380
all have

1182
00:53:17,930 --> 00:53:16,260
great uh thank you Dr Kirkpatrick and I

1183
00:53:21,230 --> 00:53:17,940
also want to you take this opportunity

1184
00:53:24,109 --> 00:53:21,240
to thank you in the Aro for your

1185
00:53:26,990 --> 00:53:24,119
openness uh in providing this committee

1186
00:53:29,150 --> 00:53:27,000
with insight and information about what

1187
00:53:31,549 --> 00:53:29,160
you've learned so far how we could work

1188
00:53:33,170 --> 00:53:31,559
together I think this is very much an

1189
00:53:35,809 --> 00:53:33,180
area where it's going to be essential

1190
00:53:40,250 --> 00:53:35,819
that NASA be a partner and be a good

1191
00:53:42,290 --> 00:53:40,260
partner for aaro and I think you're uh

1192
00:53:44,690 --> 00:53:42,300
really want to thank you for your role

1193
00:53:47,089 --> 00:53:44,700
with this Committee in helping to start

1194
00:53:52,190 --> 00:53:47,099
to build that partnership been my

1195
00:53:55,370 --> 00:53:54,049
um question uh we talked a lot about

1196
00:53:58,190 --> 00:53:55,380
data already

1197
00:53:59,690 --> 00:53:58,200
let's talk about sensors for a second so

1198
00:54:00,829 --> 00:53:59,700
you mentioned that you work for labs

1199
00:54:03,170 --> 00:54:00,839
Academia

1200
00:54:04,970 --> 00:54:03,180
do you see a need to go beyond what you

1201
00:54:07,549 --> 00:54:04,980
mentioned earlier that is the type of

1202
00:54:09,290 --> 00:54:07,559
census we have right now which are based

1203
00:54:10,910 --> 00:54:09,300
on National Security threats and certain

1204
00:54:12,230 --> 00:54:10,920
phenomenologies and frequency range of

1205
00:54:13,849 --> 00:54:12,240
these kinds of things

1206
00:54:16,549 --> 00:54:13,859
do you see a reason of going beyond that

1207
00:54:19,010 --> 00:54:16,559
yep absolutely what what are some of the

1208
00:54:21,650 --> 00:54:19,020
challenges their materials

1209
00:54:24,490 --> 00:54:21,660
so can we go back to the front slide

1210
00:54:26,530 --> 00:54:24,500
just the first slide where the target

1211
00:54:29,990 --> 00:54:26,540
characterization is

1212
00:54:33,710 --> 00:54:30,000
so we've we've purpose built a couple of

1213
00:54:36,890 --> 00:54:33,720
of sensors to do search

1214
00:54:38,270 --> 00:54:36,900
across that nope down one there you go

1215
00:54:39,770 --> 00:54:38,280
that's great

1216
00:54:41,690 --> 00:54:39,780
um to go down some of those

1217
00:54:45,530 --> 00:54:41,700
characteristics to see if we can find

1218
00:54:46,450 --> 00:54:45,540
them correlated to uh pilot reporting

1219
00:54:49,390 --> 00:54:46,460
right

1220
00:54:51,950 --> 00:54:49,400
some of those are

1221
00:54:53,930 --> 00:54:51,960
initially this is going to be I'm going

1222
00:54:56,049 --> 00:54:53,940
to say this is a bootstrap method right

1223
00:54:59,150 --> 00:54:56,059
we're doing a broad spectrum search

1224
00:55:03,170 --> 00:54:59,160
across very few indicators that we can

1225
00:55:06,109 --> 00:55:03,180
point to that will enable us to get a

1226
00:55:07,069 --> 00:55:06,119
little bit more data refine that narrow

1227
00:55:10,549 --> 00:55:07,079
those

1228
00:55:13,130 --> 00:55:10,559
sensors and and and go from there so we

1229
00:55:15,829 --> 00:55:13,140
aren't just relying on the dod and IC

1230
00:55:17,329 --> 00:55:15,839
sensors that exist today because frankly

1231
00:55:19,609 --> 00:55:17,339
they don't point to where we want them

1232
00:55:21,470 --> 00:55:19,619
to point right I mean I'll be frank with

1233
00:55:25,490 --> 00:55:21,480
with everyone

1234
00:55:29,690 --> 00:55:25,500
we we can point the largest

1235
00:55:32,089 --> 00:55:29,700
collection apparatus in the entire Globe

1236
00:55:33,589 --> 00:55:32,099
at any point we want

1237
00:55:34,910 --> 00:55:33,599
you just have to tell me where I want to

1238
00:55:37,370 --> 00:55:34,920
point it

1239
00:55:40,549 --> 00:55:37,380
second piece of that is a lot of what we

1240
00:55:41,809 --> 00:55:40,559
have is is around the continental United

1241
00:55:45,370 --> 00:55:41,819
States

1242
00:55:49,190 --> 00:55:45,380
most people including the government

1243
00:55:52,069 --> 00:55:49,200
don't like it when I point our entire

1244
00:55:55,849 --> 00:55:52,079
collection apparatus to your backyard

1245
00:55:57,589 --> 00:55:55,859
right it's it's not allowed we have some

1246
00:56:00,470 --> 00:55:57,599
laws about that and we've got to figure

1247
00:56:02,809 --> 00:56:00,480
out how to do this only in the areas

1248
00:56:05,450 --> 00:56:02,819
that that I can get high confidence

1249
00:56:07,490 --> 00:56:05,460
there's going to be something there

1250
00:56:09,829 --> 00:56:07,500
and high confidence I'm not going to

1251
00:56:11,809 --> 00:56:09,839
break any laws doing it

1252
00:56:13,910 --> 00:56:11,819
right so there's a there's a trade there

1253
00:56:16,370 --> 00:56:13,920
so some of these ground-based Point

1254
00:56:18,790 --> 00:56:16,380
detectors are going to be necessary for

1255
00:56:21,770 --> 00:56:18,800
that to point up to point out to search

1256
00:56:24,670 --> 00:56:21,780
coupled with we're evaluating a number

1257
00:56:27,490 --> 00:56:24,680
of sensor opportunities across different

1258
00:56:30,049 --> 00:56:27,500
organizations Academia

1259
00:56:32,750 --> 00:56:30,059
industry whatnot that that already exist

1260
00:56:34,849 --> 00:56:32,760
or are being built for similar purposes

1261
00:56:37,490 --> 00:56:34,859
or maybe other purposes that I might be

1262
00:56:39,829 --> 00:56:37,500
able to recalibrate for this

1263
00:56:42,170 --> 00:56:39,839
and see if those will have a chance of

1264
00:56:44,450 --> 00:56:42,180
of seeing that Target right so that's

1265
00:56:46,609 --> 00:56:44,460
where the modeling and Sim comes in can

1266
00:56:49,069 --> 00:56:46,619
I can I take that Target put it into

1267
00:56:54,890 --> 00:56:49,079
your sensor and have a chance of seeing

1268
00:56:54,900 --> 00:57:00,710
no wait who's next are you

1269
00:57:04,670 --> 00:57:03,109
um thanks Sean I have the questions you

1270
00:57:06,710 --> 00:57:04,680
probably don't want which are about

1271
00:57:07,849 --> 00:57:06,720
numbers unless I miss them during your

1272
00:57:09,950 --> 00:57:07,859
presentation

1273
00:57:11,270 --> 00:57:09,960
uh you had said that only a very small

1274
00:57:13,250 --> 00:57:11,280
percentage of your cases display

1275
00:57:14,990 --> 00:57:13,260
signatures that could be anomalous and

1276
00:57:17,049 --> 00:57:15,000
then follow that up with the few objects

1277
00:57:19,730 --> 00:57:17,059
that do demonstrate potentially

1278
00:57:21,829 --> 00:57:19,740
anomalous characteristics

1279
00:57:24,109 --> 00:57:21,839
what numbers are we talking about how

1280
00:57:26,329 --> 00:57:24,119
big is your database how many years was

1281
00:57:29,390 --> 00:57:26,339
it collected over and uh or those

1282
00:57:31,069 --> 00:57:29,400
observations made and then by few what

1283
00:57:35,210 --> 00:57:31,079
do you mean right no that's a great

1284
00:57:38,030 --> 00:57:35,220
question so this chart as I mentioned

1285
00:57:42,230 --> 00:57:38,040
we've updated with our current data

1286
00:57:43,930 --> 00:57:42,240
Holdings at the time of my open hearing

1287
00:57:47,150 --> 00:57:43,940
we were at

1288
00:57:50,290 --> 00:57:47,160
650 cases-ish

1289
00:57:53,930 --> 00:57:50,300
we are now over 800.

1290
00:57:57,710 --> 00:57:53,940
we are putting together our annual

1291
00:58:01,609 --> 00:57:57,720
report which will be due August 1. to

1292
00:58:03,589 --> 00:58:01,619
the hill and in it and there will be an

1293
00:58:05,930 --> 00:58:03,599
unclassified version as there always has

1294
00:58:07,270 --> 00:58:05,940
been we will have those updated numbers

1295
00:58:09,890 --> 00:58:07,280
at that time

1296
00:58:12,230 --> 00:58:09,900
we roughly get I mean you can do the

1297
00:58:15,849 --> 00:58:12,240
math you know it depends anywhere from

1298
00:58:19,370 --> 00:58:15,859
from 50 to

1299
00:58:21,349 --> 00:58:19,380
100-ish new reports a month now the

1300
00:58:24,109 --> 00:58:21,359
reason we had such a big jump recently

1301
00:58:26,210 --> 00:58:24,119
is because I got faa's data integrated

1302
00:58:29,870 --> 00:58:26,220
in finally and so we ended up with like

1303
00:58:31,670 --> 00:58:29,880
100 and some odd new cases

1304
00:58:34,609 --> 00:58:31,680
um so there's there's reason why it's

1305
00:58:36,710 --> 00:58:34,619
going to fluctuate the numbers that I

1306
00:58:38,510 --> 00:58:36,720
would say so

1307
00:58:40,430 --> 00:58:38,520
um

1308
00:58:42,410 --> 00:58:40,440
we're gonna we're gonna try to do a

1309
00:58:44,390 --> 00:58:42,420
little more uh

1310
00:58:47,270 --> 00:58:44,400
um Fidelity on some of the analytics

1311
00:58:51,410 --> 00:58:47,280
when we report out but the numbers I

1312
00:58:56,450 --> 00:58:51,420
would say that we see are

1313
00:58:59,510 --> 00:58:56,460
possibly really anomalous are less than

1314
00:59:02,210 --> 00:58:59,520
single digit percentages of those that

1315
00:59:09,130 --> 00:59:02,220
total database so maybe

1316
00:59:16,130 --> 00:59:13,190
all right

1317
00:59:17,510 --> 00:59:16,140
I'll stand up because I'm on the other

1318
00:59:19,370 --> 00:59:17,520
end of the room

1319
00:59:21,349 --> 00:59:19,380
um thanks Sean for your presentation and

1320
00:59:22,670 --> 00:59:21,359
for the some of the video footage that

1321
00:59:24,710 --> 00:59:22,680
we saw

1322
00:59:26,630 --> 00:59:24,720
um while we're all good scientists on

1323
00:59:28,549 --> 00:59:26,640
this panel I think that I look at it

1324
00:59:31,430 --> 00:59:28,559
with an untrained eye of looking at that

1325
00:59:33,530 --> 00:59:31,440
video and so I see three spots moving

1326
00:59:36,109 --> 00:59:33,540
and everything else in the background

1327
00:59:37,910 --> 00:59:36,119
looks like it's stable can you talk a

1328
00:59:39,470 --> 00:59:37,920
little bit more about either the sensor

1329
00:59:41,390 --> 00:59:39,480
platform or what we're seeing that's

1330
00:59:43,670 --> 00:59:41,400
stable in the background because they've

1331
00:59:47,030 --> 00:59:43,680
been identified as airplanes

1332
00:59:49,549 --> 00:59:47,040
um and there's clear description of of

1333
00:59:51,950 --> 00:59:49,559
from other data sources that came in to

1334
00:59:54,470 --> 00:59:51,960
help clarify that but when I look at

1335
00:59:55,609 --> 00:59:54,480
this what are all of the white spots in

1336
00:59:56,750 --> 00:59:55,619
the background that we're seeing that

1337
00:59:59,569 --> 00:59:56,760
are stable

1338
01:00:01,549 --> 00:59:59,579
so those are these that's a star

1339
01:00:08,630 --> 01:00:01,559
background

1340
01:00:11,329 --> 01:00:08,640
now so you're looking at those planes

1341
01:00:13,089 --> 01:00:11,339
were roughly

1342
01:00:16,309 --> 01:00:13,099
um

1343
01:00:18,410 --> 01:00:16,319
30 to 40-ish miles away if I remember

1344
01:00:20,770 --> 01:00:18,420
correctly and when you see that smaller

1345
01:00:24,650 --> 01:00:20,780
plane that comes in at the bottom

1346
01:00:25,910 --> 01:00:24,660
uh that one was much much closer it was

1347
01:00:29,690 --> 01:00:25,920
like maybe

1348
01:00:33,470 --> 01:00:29,700
six to ten miles away

1349
01:00:38,230 --> 01:00:33,480
right and so the Jitter in the sensor is

1350
01:00:42,770 --> 01:00:41,089
right okay so the three spots because

1351
01:00:46,430 --> 01:00:42,780
they look like they're moving at about

1352
01:00:49,609 --> 01:00:46,440
the same right they are right and and if

1353
01:00:52,010 --> 01:00:49,619
they were flying together but they're

1354
01:00:55,190 --> 01:00:52,020
not is what I'm hearing they're in the

1355
01:00:57,109 --> 01:00:55,200
center they're in a flight line right so

1356
01:00:59,630 --> 01:00:57,119
they're equally spaced in a flight line

1357
01:01:05,650 --> 01:00:59,640
and the sensor is jittering thank you

1358
01:01:10,549 --> 01:01:08,030
hey if you go to your first slide if you

1359
01:01:13,670 --> 01:01:10,559
don't mind not the title slide but the

1360
01:01:16,069 --> 01:01:13,680
the trends the trends yeah

1361
01:01:17,809 --> 01:01:16,079
um it's the previous slide there you go

1362
01:01:19,010 --> 01:01:17,819
thank you so

1363
01:01:20,809 --> 01:01:19,020
I want to make sure I understand the

1364
01:01:22,490 --> 01:01:20,819
slide it says typically reported

1365
01:01:24,490 --> 01:01:22,500
characteristics and there are a bunch of

1366
01:01:28,130 --> 01:01:24,500
things here like for example size

1367
01:01:31,010 --> 01:01:28,140
altitude speed if it's being observed

1368
01:01:33,829 --> 01:01:31,020
from a single sensor

1369
01:01:35,210 --> 01:01:33,839
use the example of like the airplanes

1370
01:01:36,589 --> 01:01:35,220
that were coming in and if you don't

1371
01:01:38,390 --> 01:01:36,599
know how far away they are how do you

1372
01:01:39,829 --> 01:01:38,400
assess the size how do you assess the

1373
01:01:40,789 --> 01:01:39,839
speed

1374
01:01:43,250 --> 01:01:40,799
um

1375
01:01:45,470 --> 01:01:43,260
this is what people would report but it

1376
01:01:47,030 --> 01:01:45,480
isn't necessarily what is the real size

1377
01:01:49,549 --> 01:01:47,040
of the object or the speed or anything

1378
01:01:52,789 --> 01:01:49,559
do I understand that correctly

1379
01:01:55,490 --> 01:01:52,799
partially okay so you this is not all

1380
01:01:58,210 --> 01:01:55,500
single sensor observations some of these

1381
01:02:02,329 --> 01:01:58,220
are very much multi-sensor observations

1382
01:02:04,789 --> 01:02:02,339
and this is parameterized to cover the

1383
01:02:07,970 --> 01:02:04,799
range of things for any given parameter

1384
01:02:08,870 --> 01:02:07,980
the range of of what's possible and what

1385
01:02:12,049 --> 01:02:08,880
is

1386
01:02:14,990 --> 01:02:12,059
been observed okay and then on the next

1387
01:02:17,450 --> 01:02:15,000
Slide the one where you've got the or is

1388
01:02:19,250 --> 01:02:17,460
the meatball moving across the the

1389
01:02:20,089 --> 01:02:19,260
screen that one

1390
01:02:22,510 --> 01:02:20,099
um

1391
01:02:26,690 --> 01:02:22,520
so

1392
01:02:30,609 --> 01:02:26,700
was there any look at

1393
01:02:32,930 --> 01:02:30,619
sensor artifact data processing artifact

1394
01:02:34,970 --> 01:02:32,940
I mean

1395
01:02:37,130 --> 01:02:34,980
the first thing that whenever I say

1396
01:02:39,650 --> 01:02:37,140
anything that's an obelisk I look at how

1397
01:02:43,309 --> 01:02:39,660
is the data collected yeah

1398
01:02:45,770 --> 01:02:43,319
so yes these are these are so this is an

1399
01:02:49,809 --> 01:02:45,780
EO sensor on an MQ-9

1400
01:02:53,150 --> 01:02:49,819
and we understand that very very well

1401
01:03:02,829 --> 01:02:53,160
that is that is a real object

1402
01:03:09,349 --> 01:03:06,650
and you will also use AI techniques or

1403
01:03:12,230 --> 01:03:09,359
existing data sets or possibly some of

1404
01:03:14,569 --> 01:03:12,240
them open source can you explain a

1405
01:03:16,250 --> 01:03:14,579
little bit more what kind of AI ml

1406
01:03:19,849 --> 01:03:16,260
techniques you are using

1407
01:03:22,130 --> 01:03:19,859
um is about anomaly detection or using

1408
01:03:24,230 --> 01:03:22,140
anything related to mentality processing

1409
01:03:26,150 --> 01:03:24,240
or using anything related to computer

1410
01:03:28,490 --> 01:03:26,160
vision

1411
01:03:29,690 --> 01:03:28,500
so we're looking at a number of

1412
01:03:31,910 --> 01:03:29,700
different

1413
01:03:34,750 --> 01:03:31,920
capabilities that span I think a lot of

1414
01:03:37,849 --> 01:03:34,760
what you've just said so we've got

1415
01:03:39,890 --> 01:03:37,859
uh we haven't applied it yet we are

1416
01:03:42,410 --> 01:03:39,900
researching how we're going to apply it

1417
01:03:45,950 --> 01:03:42,420
so natural language processing for the

1418
01:03:48,650 --> 01:03:45,960
reports from Pilots absolutely all right

1419
01:03:51,530 --> 01:03:48,660
Target recognition so I can train a

1420
01:03:54,049 --> 01:03:51,540
model to look for that thing and go back

1421
01:03:57,049 --> 01:03:54,059
through all of our Holdings and go give

1422
01:03:58,370 --> 01:03:57,059
me how many of these you have right

1423
01:04:02,210 --> 01:03:58,380
and then try to figure out what those

1424
01:04:04,190 --> 01:04:02,220
are so I have not put anything out there

1425
01:04:06,890 --> 01:04:04,200
yet or have not looked at anything yet

1426
01:04:10,970 --> 01:04:06,900
for

1427
01:04:13,609 --> 01:04:10,980
um active targeting in real time because

1428
01:04:15,770 --> 01:04:13,619
I don't know exactly what I would train

1429
01:04:18,470 --> 01:04:15,780
it to go look for I just know what we

1430
01:04:21,230 --> 01:04:18,480
have so I want to get more confidence on

1431
01:04:24,349 --> 01:04:21,240
what we have before I go and do that

1432
01:04:26,329 --> 01:04:24,359
except for balloons right we're trying

1433
01:04:31,670 --> 01:04:26,339
to get rid of balloons as quickly as

1434
01:04:34,910 --> 01:04:33,650
so Sean I just wanted to begin by

1435
01:04:36,230 --> 01:04:34,920
thanking you for your service to this

1436
01:04:37,730 --> 01:04:36,240
nation and this committee you don't

1437
01:04:40,190 --> 01:04:37,740
exactly have the easiest job in

1438
01:04:41,930 --> 01:04:40,200
Washington no I do not appreciate it I'm

1439
01:04:44,809 --> 01:04:41,940
glad I don't recognize that

1440
01:04:46,730 --> 01:04:44,819
certainly do I also want to commend you

1441
01:04:49,069 --> 01:04:46,740
noting the international Partnerships

1442
01:04:50,690 --> 01:04:49,079
Spain just signed the Artemis Accords

1443
01:04:53,329 --> 01:04:50,700
yesterday the increasing the membership

1444
01:04:55,430 --> 01:04:53,339
to 25 I think that's a global

1445
01:04:58,250 --> 01:04:55,440
partnership that you could leverage only

1446
01:05:02,390 --> 01:04:58,260
170 more countries to go now everyone

1447
01:05:04,490 --> 01:05:02,400
signed up I just have two questions one

1448
01:05:08,510 --> 01:05:04,500
relative to what Nadia was asking about

1449
01:05:10,730 --> 01:05:08,520
the number of anomalous phenomena what

1450
01:05:12,470 --> 01:05:10,740
makes it anomalous in your view what is

1451
01:05:15,490 --> 01:05:12,480
the phenomenology where you're pulling

1452
01:05:17,870 --> 01:05:15,500
those cases out and saying this is truly

1453
01:05:20,089 --> 01:05:17,880
unexplained and then my second question

1454
01:05:22,730 --> 01:05:20,099
would be relative to the stigma how

1455
01:05:24,589 --> 01:05:22,740
damaging is that in your view and what

1456
01:05:27,470 --> 01:05:24,599
in particular do you think NASA can do

1457
01:05:28,970 --> 01:05:27,480
to help remedy the situation

1458
01:05:30,950 --> 01:05:28,980
that's a great question so I'm going to

1459
01:05:33,010 --> 01:05:30,960
take the second one first because I know

1460
01:05:35,690 --> 01:05:33,020
we're getting short on time

1461
01:05:38,510 --> 01:05:35,700
the the stigma has improved

1462
01:05:41,329 --> 01:05:38,520
significantly over the years since the

1463
01:05:42,589 --> 01:05:41,339
Navy first took this on um some years

1464
01:05:45,410 --> 01:05:42,599
ago

1465
01:05:48,730 --> 01:05:45,420
it is not gone and in fact I would argue

1466
01:05:51,349 --> 01:05:48,740
the stigma exists inside

1467
01:05:55,910 --> 01:05:51,359
the leadership of all of our our

1468
01:05:57,170 --> 01:05:55,920
buildings right wherever that is

1469
01:05:59,809 --> 01:05:57,180
um

1470
01:06:02,450 --> 01:05:59,819
uh my team and I have also been subject

1471
01:06:05,329 --> 01:06:02,460
to lots of harassment especially coming

1472
01:06:07,250 --> 01:06:05,339
out of my last hearing because people

1473
01:06:09,410 --> 01:06:07,260
don't understand the scientific method

1474
01:06:10,789 --> 01:06:09,420
and why it does why we have to do the

1475
01:06:12,890 --> 01:06:10,799
things we have to do

1476
01:06:15,410 --> 01:06:12,900
right and because we can't just come out

1477
01:06:17,690 --> 01:06:15,420
and say you know the greatest the

1478
01:06:19,370 --> 01:06:17,700
greatest thing that could happen to me

1479
01:06:21,710 --> 01:06:19,380
is I could come out and say hey I know

1480
01:06:24,170 --> 01:06:21,720
where all these things are here you go

1481
01:06:27,289 --> 01:06:24,180
right but I don't right and it's going

1482
01:06:28,069 --> 01:06:27,299
to take us time to research all that

1483
01:06:32,210 --> 01:06:28,079
um

1484
01:06:34,809 --> 01:06:32,220
when people want answers now and so they

1485
01:06:38,329 --> 01:06:34,819
are they're actually feeding the stigma

1486
01:06:40,970 --> 01:06:38,339
by by exhibiting that kind of behavior

1487
01:06:43,430 --> 01:06:40,980
to all of us right that is that is a bad

1488
01:06:46,010 --> 01:06:43,440
thing where can NASA help I made that

1489
01:06:48,109 --> 01:06:46,020
recommendation on NASA should lead the

1490
01:06:49,609 --> 01:06:48,119
scientific discourse we need to elevate

1491
01:06:51,349 --> 01:06:49,619
this conversation

1492
01:06:54,289 --> 01:06:51,359
all right we need to have this

1493
01:06:56,210 --> 01:06:54,299
conversation in an open environment like

1494
01:06:57,289 --> 01:06:56,220
this where we aren't going to get

1495
01:06:59,870 --> 01:06:57,299
harassed

1496
01:07:01,490 --> 01:06:59,880
because this is a hard problem that is a

1497
01:07:04,789 --> 01:07:01,500
hard target problem we need to

1498
01:07:07,609 --> 01:07:04,799
understand what is the things that are

1499
01:07:10,069 --> 01:07:07,619
in all of our domains Ace or air or

1500
01:07:12,710 --> 01:07:10,079
undersea and how do we make sense of

1501
01:07:18,829 --> 01:07:15,529
um your first question on what makes it

1502
01:07:21,049 --> 01:07:18,839
anomalous to me we actually developed

1503
01:07:22,849 --> 01:07:21,059
some definitions on all of these things

1504
01:07:24,589 --> 01:07:22,859
we gave it both to the White House and

1505
01:07:26,630 --> 01:07:24,599
to Congress I think we've got some of

1506
01:07:29,390 --> 01:07:26,640
that into law now but essentially

1507
01:07:30,490 --> 01:07:29,400
anomalous is anything that is not

1508
01:07:34,069 --> 01:07:30,500
readily

1509
01:07:37,430 --> 01:07:34,079
understandable by the operator or the

1510
01:07:42,170 --> 01:07:40,250
right so it is doing something weird

1511
01:07:45,109 --> 01:07:42,180
whether that's maneuvering

1512
01:07:48,289 --> 01:07:45,119
Against the Wind and Mach 2 with no

1513
01:07:48,950 --> 01:07:48,299
apparent propulsion or it's

1514
01:07:52,309 --> 01:07:48,960
um

1515
01:07:53,809 --> 01:07:52,319
going into the water which we have we

1516
01:07:55,910 --> 01:07:53,819
have shown is not the case that is

1517
01:07:58,309 --> 01:07:55,920
actually a sensor anomaly

1518
01:08:00,950 --> 01:07:58,319
um that we've now figured out and we're

1519
01:08:03,950 --> 01:08:00,960
going to be publishing all that

1520
01:08:08,569 --> 01:08:03,960
um you know those kinds of things

1521
01:08:11,150 --> 01:08:08,579
make anomalous signature uh we'll call

1522
01:08:12,349 --> 01:08:11,160
it signature management but it's things

1523
01:08:15,669 --> 01:08:12,359
that are

1524
01:08:20,390 --> 01:08:18,769
readily understandable in the context of

1525
01:08:21,410 --> 01:08:20,400
hey I've got a thing that's out in the

1526
01:08:23,329 --> 01:08:21,420
light

1527
01:08:24,169 --> 01:08:23,339
it should reflect a certain amount of

1528
01:08:25,789 --> 01:08:24,179
light

1529
01:08:29,749 --> 01:08:25,799
if it doesn't reflect that amount of

1530
01:08:32,870 --> 01:08:31,010
I think we have time for one last

1531
01:08:35,150 --> 01:08:32,880
question

1532
01:08:37,849 --> 01:08:35,160
John you recommended

1533
01:08:40,729 --> 01:08:37,859
foreign partnership with NASA I'm

1534
01:08:42,169 --> 01:08:40,739
curious especially given your map uh

1535
01:08:43,729 --> 01:08:42,179
have you as era partnered with

1536
01:08:47,689 --> 01:08:43,739
International agencies and those are

1537
01:08:49,610 --> 01:08:47,699
ways for re according to your

1538
01:08:51,950 --> 01:08:49,620
so that's that's a great question I want

1539
01:08:56,090 --> 01:08:51,960
to expound on that just a little bit so

1540
01:08:59,390 --> 01:08:56,100
I have just held uh our first five eyes

1541
01:09:01,610 --> 01:08:59,400
Forum on this subject

1542
01:09:04,550 --> 01:09:01,620
um last week I think it was or earlier

1543
01:09:06,110 --> 01:09:04,560
this week I don't know Dan was there uh

1544
01:09:08,630 --> 01:09:06,120
and we

1545
01:09:11,150 --> 01:09:08,640
have ex you know we've we've entered

1546
01:09:13,430 --> 01:09:11,160
into discussions with our partners on

1547
01:09:15,470 --> 01:09:13,440
data sharing how do they do reporting

1548
01:09:17,450 --> 01:09:15,480
what kind of analysis can they help us

1549
01:09:19,249 --> 01:09:17,460
with what kind of calibration can they

1550
01:09:21,650 --> 01:09:19,259
help us with what can we help them with

1551
01:09:23,150 --> 01:09:21,660
and we're establishing all of that right

1552
01:09:26,990 --> 01:09:23,160
now

1553
01:09:29,809 --> 01:09:27,000
sending their information and data to us

1554
01:09:31,970 --> 01:09:29,819
to feed into the process that we've laid

1555
01:09:34,010 --> 01:09:31,980
out for how we're going to to do all

1556
01:09:34,910 --> 01:09:34,020
this

1557
01:09:38,090 --> 01:09:34,920
um

1558
01:09:40,309 --> 01:09:38,100
beyond that I have not had either the

1559
01:09:43,550 --> 01:09:40,319
time or the bandwidth to do and that's

1560
01:09:45,249 --> 01:09:43,560
why I would look to NASA to expand the

1561
01:09:47,870 --> 01:09:45,259
scientific and and

1562
01:09:51,289 --> 01:09:47,880
academic relationships that they have

1563
01:09:54,470 --> 01:09:51,299
across all of our allies and partners on

1564
01:09:56,930 --> 01:09:54,480
how can we bring them into the fold

1565
01:10:01,010 --> 01:09:56,940
that's where I think there's a lot of

1566
01:10:06,770 --> 01:10:04,570
um great uh thank you but um one just

1567
01:10:09,950 --> 01:10:06,780
clarifications for people who don't know

1568
01:10:11,150 --> 01:10:09,960
what are the five eyes oh I'm sorry uh

1569
01:10:13,189 --> 01:10:11,160
for those of you that aren't familiar

1570
01:10:16,130 --> 01:10:13,199
with the five eyes those are uh that's

1571
01:10:17,990 --> 01:10:16,140
the UK Canada

1572
01:10:21,290 --> 01:10:18,000
um Australia New Zealand and the United

1573
01:10:31,910 --> 01:10:21,300
States so those are the five partners

1574
01:10:38,450 --> 01:10:33,950
so our next presentation is from Mike

1575
01:10:46,090 --> 01:10:38,460
free on from the FAA talking about the

1576
01:10:50,030 --> 01:10:48,350
would like to thank the panel for the

1577
01:10:52,370 --> 01:10:50,040
opportunity to come and give an overview

1578
01:10:55,850 --> 01:10:52,380
of the FAA and and some data points

1579
01:10:58,430 --> 01:10:55,860
around the faa's mission the data the fa

1580
01:11:00,950 --> 01:10:58,440
provides to provide the framing of what

1581
01:11:03,229 --> 01:11:00,960
are the surveillance systems that we can

1582
01:11:05,689 --> 01:11:03,239
bring to bear or there's data around

1583
01:11:07,790 --> 01:11:05,699
Those sensors as well as to frame the

1584
01:11:09,470 --> 01:11:07,800
limitations of those I know Sean talked

1585
01:11:11,630 --> 01:11:09,480
about some of the data points that uh

1586
01:11:12,770 --> 01:11:11,640
that are used and being integrated so

1587
01:11:15,350 --> 01:11:12,780
hopefully this will give you an overview

1588
01:11:18,649 --> 01:11:15,360
of the fa's mission as well as as well

1589
01:11:20,990 --> 01:11:18,659
as that they provide talking about I'd

1590
01:11:24,470 --> 01:11:21,000
like to think around the faa's mission

1591
01:11:25,910 --> 01:11:24,480
the data the fa provides to provide the

1592
01:11:28,610 --> 01:11:25,920
framing of what are the surveillance

1593
01:11:31,010 --> 01:11:28,620
systems that we can bring to bear or

1594
01:11:33,350 --> 01:11:31,020
there's data around Those sensors as

1595
01:11:34,970 --> 01:11:33,360
well as to frame the limitations of

1596
01:11:37,070 --> 01:11:34,980
those I know Sean talked about some of

1597
01:11:38,870 --> 01:11:37,080
the data points that uh that are used

1598
01:11:40,310 --> 01:11:38,880
and being integrated so hopefully this

1599
01:11:42,950 --> 01:11:40,320
will give you an overview of the fa's

1600
01:11:46,669 --> 01:11:42,960
mission as well as as well as those data

1601
01:11:52,490 --> 01:11:49,729
so the the fa's mission is is quite

1602
01:11:55,189 --> 01:11:52,500
large and complex by by a factor of two

1603
01:11:57,410 --> 01:11:55,199
we operate uh more commercial aircraft

1604
01:11:59,630 --> 01:11:57,420
than any other country I think we're

1605
01:12:01,490 --> 01:11:59,640
second only to Australia in total

1606
01:12:04,370 --> 01:12:01,500
airspace but largely because Australia

1607
01:12:06,709 --> 01:12:04,380
has a very large Oceanic volume that

1608
01:12:09,709 --> 01:12:06,719
they're responsible for for managing so

1609
01:12:11,090 --> 01:12:09,719
it is a very complex very large National

1610
01:12:13,070 --> 01:12:11,100
airspace system

1611
01:12:16,010 --> 01:12:13,080
uh we have four over fourteen thousand

1612
01:12:19,510 --> 01:12:16,020
controllers uh 520 Air Traffic Control

1613
01:12:23,149 --> 01:12:19,520
Towers which are located at the the

1614
01:12:24,890 --> 01:12:23,159
highest density of airports and I've

1615
01:12:26,630 --> 01:12:24,900
referred to those as towers and and

1616
01:12:29,990 --> 01:12:26,640
subsequent slides

1617
01:12:32,149 --> 01:12:30,000
we have 147 what we call terminal radar

1618
01:12:36,470 --> 01:12:32,159
approach controls or tracons and those

1619
01:12:38,510 --> 01:12:36,480
are manned control facilities at the

1620
01:12:41,149 --> 01:12:38,520
high and medium density airports around

1621
01:12:43,490 --> 01:12:41,159
the nation as well as 21 air Route

1622
01:12:45,709 --> 01:12:43,500
traffic control centers which are which

1623
01:12:47,450 --> 01:12:45,719
manage the control of air traffic in the

1624
01:12:50,990 --> 01:12:47,460
en route environment

1625
01:12:53,510 --> 01:12:51,000
there's 19 000 over 19 000 airports five

1626
01:12:56,149 --> 01:12:53,520
thousand over five thousand of those are

1627
01:12:58,970 --> 01:12:56,159
associated to public airports uh with

1628
01:13:00,830 --> 01:12:58,980
the remaining 14 000 plus private

1629
01:13:05,090 --> 01:13:00,840
airports

1630
01:13:10,850 --> 01:13:08,270
so the faa's mission is primarily around

1631
01:13:13,010 --> 01:13:10,860
safe and efficient control of manned

1632
01:13:14,990 --> 01:13:13,020
aircraft that has been our historical

1633
01:13:17,510 --> 01:13:15,000
Mission and it remains our primary

1634
01:13:19,850 --> 01:13:17,520
Mission uh certainly as we talk about a

1635
01:13:21,709 --> 01:13:19,860
new entrance with uas's and Advanced Air

1636
01:13:24,470 --> 01:13:21,719
mobility and some of those things there

1637
01:13:26,689 --> 01:13:24,480
will be an evolution of the fa's mission

1638
01:13:30,590 --> 01:13:26,699
to include safe operation of the nas

1639
01:13:33,229 --> 01:13:30,600
with those those new entrants but the

1640
01:13:35,870 --> 01:13:33,239
architecture and design of the Nas is is

1641
01:13:39,010 --> 01:13:35,880
geared around safe and efficient control

1642
01:13:42,530 --> 01:13:39,020
of aircraft and manned aircraft

1643
01:13:44,149 --> 01:13:42,540
the certainly the the commercial aspect

1644
01:13:45,890 --> 01:13:44,159
the commercial flights are a primary

1645
01:13:50,390 --> 01:13:45,900
focus of the agency we certainly support

1646
01:13:52,729 --> 01:13:50,400
general aviation and flights as well

1647
01:13:54,590 --> 01:13:52,739
um but again our mission is around main

1648
01:13:57,350 --> 01:13:54,600
aircraft and safe and an efficient

1649
01:14:01,370 --> 01:13:57,360
operation of those

1650
01:14:06,110 --> 01:14:01,380
um the uh by the Numbers over 16 million

1651
01:14:08,750 --> 01:14:06,120
flights yearly 5400 flights uh at Peak

1652
01:14:10,970 --> 01:14:08,760
any given at the peak time of any given

1653
01:14:14,990 --> 01:14:10,980
day uh 45

1654
01:14:18,669 --> 01:14:15,000
000 daily flights 25 million GA flight

1655
01:14:21,410 --> 01:14:18,679
hours per year a very large very complex

1656
01:14:24,229 --> 01:14:21,420
operation that that we're responsible

1657
01:14:26,390 --> 01:14:24,239
for managing I was certainly providing a

1658
01:14:28,550 --> 01:14:26,400
significant contribution to to that for

1659
01:14:32,750 --> 01:14:28,560
that service to to the nation in the

1660
01:14:36,770 --> 01:14:32,760
form of uh you know product toward a GDP

1661
01:14:41,750 --> 01:14:39,890
so as we get into the discussion of

1662
01:14:43,910 --> 01:14:41,760
surveillance Services I want to provide

1663
01:14:45,410 --> 01:14:43,920
a little bit of framework around the

1664
01:14:47,870 --> 01:14:45,420
categorization of our surveillance

1665
01:14:50,630 --> 01:14:47,880
services and we primarily break those

1666
01:14:52,970 --> 01:14:50,640
into two two bodies The Cooperative

1667
01:14:55,490 --> 01:14:52,980
surveillance which is defined by an a

1668
01:14:57,530 --> 01:14:55,500
sensor that's avionics or equipment on

1669
01:15:00,950 --> 01:14:57,540
board the aircraft that works in

1670
01:15:03,649 --> 01:15:00,960
conjunction with ground-based sensors

1671
01:15:05,510 --> 01:15:03,659
the non-cooperative surveillance is

1672
01:15:07,790 --> 01:15:05,520
independent this is basically the

1673
01:15:10,610 --> 01:15:07,800
classic radar RF energy is transmitted

1674
01:15:12,410 --> 01:15:10,620
out reflects off the Target and we

1675
01:15:14,510 --> 01:15:12,420
receive that signal and from that return

1676
01:15:16,610 --> 01:15:14,520
we can determine where that their their

1677
01:15:18,709 --> 01:15:16,620
that aircraft is

1678
01:15:20,510 --> 01:15:18,719
typically these cooperative and

1679
01:15:23,209 --> 01:15:20,520
non-cooperative sensors are co-located

1680
01:15:25,729 --> 01:15:23,219
together uh one The Cooperative amounted

1681
01:15:27,470 --> 01:15:25,739
on top of the non-cooperative radar

1682
01:15:30,050 --> 01:15:27,480
so for the purpose from a data

1683
01:15:32,689 --> 01:15:30,060
perspective I think in this panel in the

1684
01:15:36,290 --> 01:15:32,699
study I I think that the Cooperative

1685
01:15:39,530 --> 01:15:36,300
sensors those are neither unknown or

1686
01:15:41,149 --> 01:15:39,540
anomalous so for the purposes of this

1687
01:15:43,189 --> 01:15:41,159
this briefing or the rest of this

1688
01:15:46,130 --> 01:15:43,199
briefing I'm going to focus on the the

1689
01:15:50,570 --> 01:15:46,140
non-cooperative aspect

1690
01:15:56,510 --> 01:15:54,169
so the again from the standpoint of the

1691
01:15:58,669 --> 01:15:56,520
mission of the FAA around it again is is

1692
01:16:00,350 --> 01:15:58,679
primarily around demand aircraft and I

1693
01:16:03,169 --> 01:16:00,360
think that serves as an important

1694
01:16:04,729 --> 01:16:03,179
framework for the data points and the

1695
01:16:06,590 --> 01:16:04,739
type of data that we can bring to bear

1696
01:16:09,410 --> 01:16:06,600
for this panel

1697
01:16:10,930 --> 01:16:09,420
so we break our our systems and the

1698
01:16:13,310 --> 01:16:10,940
design of the systems into different

1699
01:16:16,149 --> 01:16:13,320
types of systems so we have short range

1700
01:16:20,090 --> 01:16:16,159
Radars which are typically located at

1701
01:16:22,370 --> 01:16:20,100
the high and medium density airports and

1702
01:16:24,410 --> 01:16:22,380
those operate from a range I have a

1703
01:16:26,810 --> 01:16:24,420
detection range between 40 and 60 miles

1704
01:16:29,270 --> 01:16:26,820
and an altitude detection capability of

1705
01:16:31,790 --> 01:16:29,280
about 24 000 feet

1706
01:16:33,770 --> 01:16:31,800
the long-range radar systems have a

1707
01:16:37,430 --> 01:16:33,780
detection range of 2 to 250 nautical

1708
01:16:39,530 --> 01:16:37,440
miles with altitude detection up to 100

1709
01:16:42,290 --> 01:16:39,540
000 feet so that provides the basic the

1710
01:16:44,870 --> 01:16:42,300
framework for for those I will mention

1711
01:16:47,689 --> 01:16:44,880
the automatic dependence surveillance

1712
01:16:50,390 --> 01:16:47,699
broadcaster adsb only from a context

1713
01:16:52,550 --> 01:16:50,400
that that does serve as a primary data

1714
01:16:53,930 --> 01:16:52,560
source and a preferred data source for

1715
01:16:56,630 --> 01:16:53,940
the management of the airspace system

1716
01:16:58,790 --> 01:16:56,640
but it is a Cooperative system and for

1717
01:17:00,470 --> 01:16:58,800
the purposes of the next slides as I get

1718
01:17:03,050 --> 01:17:00,480
into the discussion of the coverage and

1719
01:17:05,630 --> 01:17:03,060
the type of detection for those

1720
01:17:08,149 --> 01:17:05,640
non-cooperative targets it is not

1721
01:17:11,450 --> 01:17:08,159
considered as part of those

1722
01:17:12,890 --> 01:17:11,460
and also surface surveillance is also

1723
01:17:14,930 --> 01:17:12,900
something that we provide but again for

1724
01:17:16,189 --> 01:17:14,940
the purpose of the study I only include

1725
01:17:19,490 --> 01:17:16,199
those for just a completeness

1726
01:17:25,610 --> 01:17:22,370
the one final Point as I talk about

1727
01:17:28,189 --> 01:17:25,620
manned aircraft and primary mission

1728
01:17:30,470 --> 01:17:28,199
for the

1729
01:17:33,590 --> 01:17:30,480
drones and balloons and things of that

1730
01:17:36,110 --> 01:17:33,600
nature their basic premise is to operate

1731
01:17:37,729 --> 01:17:36,120
in a not to interfere basis that they

1732
01:17:40,250 --> 01:17:37,739
are not to interfere with manned

1733
01:17:42,649 --> 01:17:40,260
operations and that's that's a

1734
01:17:44,870 --> 01:17:42,659
fundamental aspect as we talk to the

1735
01:17:47,990 --> 01:17:44,880
data and what we can and can detect with

1736
01:17:49,970 --> 01:17:48,000
respect to those non-band non-man

1737
01:17:53,750 --> 01:17:49,980
systems

1738
01:17:57,669 --> 01:17:55,910
realizing this is an eye chart this I

1739
01:18:00,410 --> 01:17:57,679
would wanted to provide just a a

1740
01:18:02,750 --> 01:18:00,420
graphical or pictorial depiction of

1741
01:18:06,410 --> 01:18:02,760
where our sensors are located

1742
01:18:07,430 --> 01:18:06,420
the green blue and pink balloons if you

1743
01:18:09,950 --> 01:18:07,440
will

1744
01:18:13,490 --> 01:18:09,960
uh represent our short range Radars

1745
01:18:16,550 --> 01:18:13,500
those are are located at airports those

1746
01:18:20,149 --> 01:18:16,560
are where those are are cited

1747
01:18:22,610 --> 01:18:20,159
the uh the two reddish balloons they

1748
01:18:25,010 --> 01:18:22,620
have letters in them a four and a c

1749
01:18:27,890 --> 01:18:25,020
those represent our long-range Radars

1750
01:18:31,070 --> 01:18:27,900
the rc4s and Karcher systems that are

1751
01:18:32,870 --> 01:18:31,080
used in in the context of both from an

1752
01:18:35,030 --> 01:18:32,880
air traffic control perspective as well

1753
01:18:37,370 --> 01:18:35,040
as for a National Defense and Homeland

1754
01:18:39,130 --> 01:18:37,380
Security mission

1755
01:18:42,050 --> 01:18:39,140
and the the

1756
01:18:43,370 --> 01:18:42,060
perimeter the Archer fours are located

1757
01:18:45,709 --> 01:18:43,380
around the perimeter of the country

1758
01:18:49,330 --> 01:18:45,719
equally spaced and the karcer systems

1759
01:18:52,370 --> 01:18:49,340
are located on the interior of of the US

1760
01:18:55,850 --> 01:18:52,380
I will point out that this only depicts

1761
01:18:57,169 --> 01:18:55,860
the conus there are systems atcs both

1762
01:19:02,090 --> 01:18:57,179
short-range and long-range systems

1763
01:19:04,250 --> 01:19:02,100
Hawaii Alaska and Caribbean those are

1764
01:19:07,310 --> 01:19:04,260
not depicted here I don't think they're

1765
01:19:09,709 --> 01:19:07,320
necessary for the uh the purpose of

1766
01:19:11,930 --> 01:19:09,719
understanding the surveillance and I

1767
01:19:13,610 --> 01:19:11,940
will also point out that both for this

1768
01:19:16,610 --> 01:19:13,620
slide and the subsequent coverage slide

1769
01:19:21,050 --> 01:19:16,620
we I do not talk to any classified DOD

1770
01:19:28,010 --> 01:19:21,060
or DHA systems than an operation

1771
01:19:34,550 --> 01:19:30,890
so what it is what can the fa detect and

1772
01:19:38,030 --> 01:19:34,560
surveil what can can we not this slide

1773
01:19:39,590 --> 01:19:38,040
gives you a buy altitude slice of what

1774
01:19:41,630 --> 01:19:39,600
it is that we can detect so if you look

1775
01:19:43,550 --> 01:19:41,640
at the the

1776
01:19:44,810 --> 01:19:43,560
Square that's labeled a thousand foot

1777
01:19:48,169 --> 01:19:44,820
AGL

1778
01:19:50,750 --> 01:19:48,179
that depicts by sensor for an aircraft

1779
01:19:53,090 --> 01:19:50,760
that is a thousand feet in altitude what

1780
01:19:54,410 --> 01:19:53,100
is the range at which we can detect that

1781
01:19:57,110 --> 01:19:54,420
aircraft

1782
01:19:59,030 --> 01:19:57,120
and so on as you you get higher in

1783
01:20:02,209 --> 01:19:59,040
altitude

1784
01:20:03,709 --> 01:20:02,219
detect it at further range and that's

1785
01:20:05,030 --> 01:20:03,719
basically a phenomenon of the curvature

1786
01:20:08,030 --> 01:20:05,040
of the earth and the line of sight

1787
01:20:10,550 --> 01:20:08,040
aspect of these these radar systems so

1788
01:20:14,450 --> 01:20:10,560
pretty good coverage across the the us

1789
01:20:17,450 --> 01:20:14,460
at 10 000 feet and above

1790
01:20:19,669 --> 01:20:17,460
this is a mathematical model based of a

1791
01:20:21,290 --> 01:20:19,679
pure line of sight as well as some

1792
01:20:23,570 --> 01:20:21,300
geographical screening as you can see in

1793
01:20:25,250 --> 01:20:23,580
the western part of the U.S there are

1794
01:20:29,090 --> 01:20:25,260
there is screening and due to the

1795
01:20:34,130 --> 01:20:30,649
need to take a little bit of time and

1796
01:20:36,910 --> 01:20:34,140
talk about the the nature of the targets

1797
01:20:40,910 --> 01:20:36,920
these line of sight models

1798
01:20:43,189 --> 01:20:40,920
represent an input of a Target that is

1799
01:20:45,590 --> 01:20:43,199
one square meter so think of a sphere of

1800
01:20:47,330 --> 01:20:45,600
one meter in diameter that's the

1801
01:20:49,010 --> 01:20:47,340
assumption that goes into these models

1802
01:20:51,770 --> 01:20:49,020
so if you think about that in the

1803
01:20:55,130 --> 01:20:51,780
context of other forms or aircraft a

1804
01:20:56,689 --> 01:20:55,140
fourth generation F-15 or F-18 is in the

1805
01:20:59,270 --> 01:20:56,699
product proximity of about one square

1806
01:21:01,970 --> 01:20:59,280
meter perhaps a little bit larger a

1807
01:21:02,990 --> 01:21:01,980
large airliner is perhaps a 100 square

1808
01:21:05,570 --> 01:21:03,000
meters

1809
01:21:08,350 --> 01:21:05,580
a small uas

1810
01:21:12,709 --> 01:21:08,360
is perhaps

1811
01:21:14,870 --> 01:21:12,719
one or a 0.01 square meter so the range

1812
01:21:16,850 --> 01:21:14,880
of these detections or the or the size

1813
01:21:21,530 --> 01:21:16,860
and the ability to check these targets

1814
01:21:24,350 --> 01:21:21,540
from an F-15 large airliner 100 times

1815
01:21:27,189 --> 01:21:24,360
larger in size a drone a hundred times

1816
01:21:29,750 --> 01:21:27,199
smaller in size so the detection

1817
01:21:32,149 --> 01:21:29,760
of and the surveillance capability

1818
01:21:33,830 --> 01:21:32,159
really largely depends in part to the

1819
01:21:37,669 --> 01:21:33,840
the Target that we're talking about and

1820
01:21:37,679 --> 01:21:43,250
all right next slide

1821
01:21:49,550 --> 01:21:47,090
so I do include this adsb coverage slide

1822
01:21:51,890 --> 01:21:49,560
just to give a context of from a

1823
01:21:55,250 --> 01:21:51,900
Cooperative perspective there is very

1824
01:21:57,950 --> 01:21:55,260
good coverage across the U.S to a

1825
01:22:00,770 --> 01:21:57,960
thousand uh 1 500 feet above ground

1826
01:22:02,870 --> 01:22:00,780
level so this provided context of what

1827
01:22:04,370 --> 01:22:02,880
when we look at the data and start

1828
01:22:06,470 --> 01:22:04,380
getting a discussion of what it is we

1829
01:22:09,890 --> 01:22:06,480
can detect this will certainly for those

1830
01:22:11,750 --> 01:22:09,900
Cooperative aircraft that have adsp we

1831
01:22:14,209 --> 01:22:11,760
could certainly detect those to a pretty

1832
01:22:17,570 --> 01:22:14,219
a pretty low altitude across across the

1833
01:22:21,830 --> 01:22:19,790
all right a couple of data points I

1834
01:22:23,390 --> 01:22:21,840
think um I know Sean certainly talked

1835
01:22:25,729 --> 01:22:23,400
about some of the data points and I can

1836
01:22:27,550 --> 01:22:25,739
provide a little bit of insight uh from

1837
01:22:30,890 --> 01:22:27,560
an fa perspective

1838
01:22:34,250 --> 01:22:30,900
drones drones are a pretty significant

1839
01:22:36,610 --> 01:22:34,260
challenge there's 880 000 registered

1840
01:22:40,010 --> 01:22:36,620
drones in the US

1841
01:22:42,110 --> 01:22:40,020
small drones I should say part 107

1842
01:22:43,970 --> 01:22:42,120
drones

1843
01:22:46,850 --> 01:22:43,980
um many tens of thousands of those are

1844
01:22:49,310 --> 01:22:46,860
operate operated on a daily basis uh for

1845
01:22:51,649 --> 01:22:49,320
by commercial operators it's not clear

1846
01:22:53,630 --> 01:22:51,659
how many private drone operators are

1847
01:22:55,669 --> 01:22:53,640
taking they're they're drawn up for a

1848
01:22:57,229 --> 01:22:55,679
quick flight

1849
01:22:58,729 --> 01:22:57,239
um but as I said earlier those are

1850
01:23:04,189 --> 01:22:58,739
regulated

1851
01:23:07,910 --> 01:23:04,199
400 feet in altitude so again it's the

1852
01:23:10,310 --> 01:23:07,920
Drone aspect is for those small drones

1853
01:23:12,729 --> 01:23:10,320
in particular and as well as all of all

1854
01:23:14,870 --> 01:23:12,739
classes of drones there are regulatory

1855
01:23:17,149 --> 01:23:14,880
restrictions to where they can and

1856
01:23:18,830 --> 01:23:17,159
cannot fly basically avoiding and not

1857
01:23:22,070 --> 01:23:18,840
interfering with manned aircraft

1858
01:23:26,330 --> 01:23:23,750
second data point we talked about

1859
01:23:28,729 --> 01:23:26,340
balloons uh The Weather Service we know

1860
01:23:31,790 --> 01:23:28,739
on 190 or 92 weather stations they're

1861
01:23:35,870 --> 01:23:31,800
released balloons twice a day it's at 6

1862
01:23:38,209 --> 01:23:35,880
a.m and and uh zero zero hundred Zulu

1863
01:23:40,189 --> 01:23:38,219
and 1200 Zulu

1864
01:23:42,229 --> 01:23:40,199
um typically two-hour duration they fly

1865
01:23:45,050 --> 01:23:42,239
up to 100 000 feet where the envelope

1866
01:23:47,930 --> 01:23:45,060
bursts and and then the payload uh

1867
01:23:49,970 --> 01:23:47,940
descends back back to Earth so certainly

1868
01:23:52,550 --> 01:23:49,980
um you know 100 at least 184 balloon

1869
01:23:54,830 --> 01:23:52,560
flights daily uh in the nas you know not

1870
01:23:56,570 --> 01:23:54,840
to consider universities and hobbyist

1871
01:24:00,350 --> 01:23:56,580
balloons that that may be launched but

1872
01:24:03,410 --> 01:24:00,360
those are typically small small in size

1873
01:24:06,229 --> 01:24:03,420
and finally uh Sean did talk about uaps

1874
01:24:08,270 --> 01:24:06,239
and NFA data a couple of data points

1875
01:24:09,910 --> 01:24:08,280
that we do report there is a process by

1876
01:24:15,470 --> 01:24:09,920
which air traffic controllers can report

1877
01:24:17,030 --> 01:24:15,480
uh UAP sightings or or events uh

1878
01:24:19,669 --> 01:24:17,040
historically those have been in the

1879
01:24:22,610 --> 01:24:19,679
range of about three to five reports per

1880
01:24:27,189 --> 01:24:22,620
month that have been reported uh we did

1881
01:24:29,630 --> 01:24:27,199
see an uptick of of reports in August 22

1882
01:24:31,790 --> 01:24:29,640
that went up to about eight to ten

1883
01:24:33,070 --> 01:24:31,800
perhaps due to startling starlink

1884
01:24:35,450 --> 01:24:33,080
launches

1885
01:24:38,209 --> 01:24:35,460
and finally the

1886
01:24:40,370 --> 01:24:38,219
with a Chinese weather or the Chinese

1887
01:24:42,290 --> 01:24:40,380
balloon incident in February we did see

1888
01:24:45,890 --> 01:24:42,300
a significant up tip an uptick and

1889
01:24:48,229 --> 01:24:45,900
there's like 68 UAP reports

1890
01:24:49,610 --> 01:24:48,239
um that that started in February and

1891
01:24:52,790 --> 01:24:49,620
we've seen a large number you know

1892
01:24:55,550 --> 01:24:52,800
subsequent two then to that

1893
01:24:58,010 --> 01:24:55,560
I think that's all I had

1894
01:24:59,930 --> 01:24:58,020
um any questions

1895
01:25:01,790 --> 01:24:59,940
do you want to take the question it's

1896
01:25:04,570 --> 01:25:01,800
easy actually you can choose the

1897
01:25:07,070 --> 01:25:04,580
questioners it's easy for you all right

1898
01:25:09,830 --> 01:25:07,080
yeah so two questions two questions

1899
01:25:12,590 --> 01:25:09,840
about the uh the radar data coverage

1900
01:25:14,450 --> 01:25:12,600
first one is do you retain any of the

1901
01:25:15,110 --> 01:25:14,460
data or is it

1902
01:25:17,810 --> 01:25:15,120
um

1903
01:25:20,450 --> 01:25:17,820
just cycled over as there is a retention

1904
01:25:22,310 --> 01:25:20,460
in long-term retention of data I can't

1905
01:25:24,229 --> 01:25:22,320
recall exactly how long retained that

1906
01:25:28,130 --> 01:25:24,239
there's certainly a requirement from uh

1907
01:25:30,590 --> 01:25:28,140
uh retention from a like legal

1908
01:25:32,750 --> 01:25:30,600
perspective exactly

1909
01:25:34,669 --> 01:25:32,760
um but I do know there is some

1910
01:25:36,830 --> 01:25:34,679
periodicities in a measured and

1911
01:25:39,890 --> 01:25:36,840
determined months is it retained in

1912
01:25:41,810 --> 01:25:39,900
terms of like the raw radar or is some

1913
01:25:43,850 --> 01:25:41,820
processed form of state of this retained

1914
01:25:46,490 --> 01:25:43,860
I believe it's a process form of data

1915
01:25:48,830 --> 01:25:46,500
that is what was displayed on the uh

1916
01:25:50,990 --> 01:25:48,840
whether it's in an Indian root eram

1917
01:25:53,390 --> 01:25:51,000
system or the star system and then the

1918
01:25:55,610 --> 01:25:53,400
other question is for The Radars

1919
01:25:58,790 --> 01:25:55,620
um are they operated in any sort of a

1920
01:26:01,250 --> 01:25:58,800
tasked mode or are they constant search

1921
01:26:03,290 --> 01:26:01,260
the current systems in our inventory

1922
01:26:06,229 --> 01:26:03,300
just they're they're fixed face and they

1923
01:26:08,030 --> 01:26:06,239
just rotate at either 12 RPM or 5 RPM

1924
01:26:10,010 --> 01:26:08,040
depending on whether it's an enroute or

1925
01:26:12,890 --> 01:26:10,020
a terminal surveillance thanks

1926
01:26:21,070 --> 01:26:12,900
requirement all right next question I

1927
01:26:26,930 --> 01:26:23,870
that is three to five reports per month

1928
01:26:29,330 --> 01:26:26,940
for all the controllers in all of the US

1929
01:26:30,590 --> 01:26:29,340
so there's a process by which if they

1930
01:26:33,110 --> 01:26:30,600
see something and they want to report

1931
01:26:36,890 --> 01:26:33,120
that they can go to report that to the

1932
01:26:38,209 --> 01:26:36,900
the then we call it but uh report hey I

1933
01:26:40,850 --> 01:26:38,219
saw something I don't know what it was

1934
01:26:43,790 --> 01:26:40,860
so it's three to five per month across

1935
01:26:45,410 --> 01:26:43,800
the entire 14 000 controllers

1936
01:26:47,629 --> 01:26:45,420
per month so

1937
01:26:50,330 --> 01:26:47,639
you know 45

1938
01:26:52,610 --> 01:26:50,340
000 operations any given day

1939
01:26:53,990 --> 01:26:52,620
30 months 30 days however many days in a

1940
01:26:56,330 --> 01:26:54,000
month you know it's a very small

1941
01:26:59,390 --> 01:26:56,340
percentage

1942
01:27:02,689 --> 01:26:59,400
okay uh can you describe actually about

1943
01:27:05,330 --> 01:27:02,699
this how do you do you encourage uh to

1944
01:27:08,590 --> 01:27:05,340
report do you feel like the stigma on

1945
01:27:11,930 --> 01:27:08,600
uaps is impairing the reporting

1946
01:27:13,729 --> 01:27:11,940
I'm not aware of

1947
01:27:17,450 --> 01:27:13,739
I'll answer it this way

1948
01:27:19,850 --> 01:27:17,460
um the the process by which UAP is

1949
01:27:21,950 --> 01:27:19,860
reported is part of the air traffic

1950
01:27:23,629 --> 01:27:21,960
controller order so basically the Air

1951
01:27:25,189 --> 01:27:23,639
Drive controllers are allowed it says

1952
01:27:26,990 --> 01:27:25,199
you know if you see something here's a

1953
01:27:29,330 --> 01:27:27,000
process by which the procedure by which

1954
01:27:32,629 --> 01:27:29,340
you would report it other than that I'm

1955
01:27:36,709 --> 01:27:32,639
not aware of any any specific stigma or

1956
01:27:38,870 --> 01:27:36,719
or limitations and I really probably not

1957
01:27:40,610 --> 01:27:38,880
in a good position to you know to speak

1958
01:27:42,669 --> 01:27:40,620
to that other than there is that process

1959
01:27:45,649 --> 01:27:42,679
and that is the process that we use and

1960
01:27:47,810 --> 01:27:45,659
is what represents those numbers I talk

1961
01:27:50,629 --> 01:27:47,820
to and if I may have had a question

1962
01:27:52,729 --> 01:27:50,639
prior to this one how do you uh decide

1963
01:27:54,890 --> 01:27:52,739
the sites where you deploy you saw the

1964
01:27:56,689 --> 01:27:54,900
map and it has some very good coverage

1965
01:27:58,790 --> 01:27:56,699
on the coastal areas there were some

1966
01:28:00,950 --> 01:27:58,800
areas of lack of coverage yeah so if we

1967
01:28:03,890 --> 01:28:00,960
want if you go back go back one slide

1968
01:28:06,470 --> 01:28:03,900
from what's presented here

1969
01:28:08,930 --> 01:28:06,480
um the what you'll see is in the eastern

1970
01:28:11,209 --> 01:28:08,940
half of the U.S there's a lot better

1971
01:28:13,189 --> 01:28:11,219
coverage but that's because there's a

1972
01:28:15,169 --> 01:28:13,199
lot more population in the East and

1973
01:28:17,990 --> 01:28:15,179
therefore a lot more airports and these

1974
01:28:19,550 --> 01:28:18,000
systems are historically cited at the

1975
01:28:22,250 --> 01:28:19,560
airport in support of those those

1976
01:28:25,370 --> 01:28:22,260
airport operations to the West obviously

1977
01:28:29,090 --> 01:28:25,380
oops to less less dense and fewer

1978
01:28:31,729 --> 01:28:29,100
systems now the that's from an ASR the

1979
01:28:33,950 --> 01:28:31,739
short range radar perspective the

1980
01:28:36,530 --> 01:28:33,960
long-range Radars are pretty much

1981
01:28:38,390 --> 01:28:36,540
equally spaced to provide in order to

1982
01:28:40,490 --> 01:28:38,400
provide the maximum coverage from a

1983
01:28:43,790 --> 01:28:40,500
Homeland defense and security

1984
01:28:45,970 --> 01:28:43,800
perspective as well as with a higher

1985
01:28:52,189 --> 01:28:45,980
altitude flights the en route

1986
01:28:56,330 --> 01:28:53,390
Warren

1987
01:28:58,070 --> 01:28:56,340
uh Mike first thank you in the fa for

1988
01:29:00,050 --> 01:28:58,080
coming to share this information with us

1989
01:29:02,090 --> 01:29:00,060
second uh can you speak to a little bit

1990
01:29:04,550 --> 01:29:02,100
uh of the filtering techniques that we

1991
01:29:05,870 --> 01:29:04,560
use so with respect to I know Walter had

1992
01:29:07,310 --> 01:29:05,880
a question about the raw data and

1993
01:29:09,410 --> 01:29:07,320
process but can you just talk a little

1994
01:29:10,790 --> 01:29:09,420
bit about we actually aren't trying to

1995
01:29:12,169 --> 01:29:10,800
detect everything you know that's

1996
01:29:14,030 --> 01:29:12,179
actually a very good question and a very

1997
01:29:17,810 --> 01:29:14,040
good point with respect to what we can

1998
01:29:19,850 --> 01:29:17,820
and cannot see so um there are you know

1999
01:29:22,729 --> 01:29:19,860
the closer to the ground you point a

2000
01:29:25,310 --> 01:29:22,739
radar uh certainly you can get lower

2001
01:29:27,649 --> 01:29:25,320
elevations but you also start to see the

2002
01:29:30,110 --> 01:29:27,659
effects of trees and other ground-based

2003
01:29:32,030 --> 01:29:30,120
clutter as we call it that starts to

2004
01:29:34,370 --> 01:29:32,040
interfere so we have great ability to

2005
01:29:37,189 --> 01:29:34,380
detect a lot of things but but from an

2006
01:29:39,050 --> 01:29:37,199
fa Mission perspective our desire is to

2007
01:29:41,149 --> 01:29:39,060
find that sweet spot of seeing

2008
01:29:42,790 --> 01:29:41,159
everything to as low in altitude as we

2009
01:29:45,830 --> 01:29:42,800
can

2010
01:29:47,870 --> 01:29:45,840
to maximize our mission around safe

2011
01:29:49,610 --> 01:29:47,880
operations of manned aircraft

2012
01:29:51,350 --> 01:29:49,620
now to pull that thread just a little

2013
01:29:53,510 --> 01:29:51,360
bit further you know there's also

2014
01:29:55,610 --> 01:29:53,520
limitation with respect to Biologicals

2015
01:29:58,970 --> 01:29:55,620
or or insects and dust and things of

2016
01:30:01,669 --> 01:29:58,980
this this flavor that uh most aircraft

2017
01:30:04,129 --> 01:30:01,679
Fly Above a certain speed so we

2018
01:30:07,790 --> 01:30:04,139
typically will have uh filtering

2019
01:30:09,410 --> 01:30:07,800
settings on our systems to get rid of

2020
01:30:11,990 --> 01:30:09,420
the stuff that really is leaves or

2021
01:30:15,590 --> 01:30:12,000
insects or things of that nature so that

2022
01:30:17,810 --> 01:30:15,600
we provide as clean a a display for the

2023
01:30:20,390 --> 01:30:17,820
controllers so there are specific

2024
01:30:22,430 --> 01:30:20,400
settings that we we can can adjust and

2025
01:30:25,129 --> 01:30:22,440
it's been learned over many years to

2026
01:30:28,070 --> 01:30:25,139
perfect those what we call optimization

2027
01:30:29,930 --> 01:30:28,080
of those kinds of filters to get rid of

2028
01:30:32,750 --> 01:30:29,940
what is not a manned aircraft not an

2029
01:30:35,209 --> 01:30:32,760
aircraft and and provide as clean a

2030
01:30:37,790 --> 01:30:35,219
display for the controllers as we can

2031
01:30:42,290 --> 01:30:40,010
yeah please thanks

2032
01:30:44,030 --> 01:30:42,300
um thank you thanks for the presentation

2033
01:30:44,990 --> 01:30:44,040
um would it be kind of fun what you said

2034
01:30:47,270 --> 01:30:45,000
Warren

2035
01:30:49,729 --> 01:30:47,280
um would it be possible to

2036
01:30:51,649 --> 01:30:49,739
um to collect the raw data and to save

2037
01:30:53,810 --> 01:30:51,659
that because if if it would be possible

2038
01:30:55,850 --> 01:30:53,820
to do some calibration after the fact

2039
01:30:57,169 --> 01:30:55,860
that Sean was mentioning for example you

2040
01:30:59,750 --> 01:30:57,179
might be to capture other phenomenology

2041
01:31:01,129 --> 01:30:59,760
is that possible well when you say raw

2042
01:31:03,290 --> 01:31:01,139
data I think you'd have we'd have to

2043
01:31:06,169 --> 01:31:03,300
talk a little bit about what is meant um

2044
01:31:09,350 --> 01:31:06,179
so you know what from a technical

2045
01:31:13,250 --> 01:31:09,360
perspective pure what we would call inq

2046
01:31:17,149 --> 01:31:13,260
data is huge huge you know gigabyte very

2047
01:31:19,070 --> 01:31:17,159
very very large volumes of data that

2048
01:31:21,890 --> 01:31:19,080
would probably be uh cost prohibitive

2049
01:31:26,149 --> 01:31:21,900
and we certainly don't do that today

2050
01:31:28,129 --> 01:31:26,159
um the there are again we do record data

2051
01:31:29,870 --> 01:31:28,139
but it is effectively the data that is

2052
01:31:31,910 --> 01:31:29,880
has been through some form of these

2053
01:31:34,129 --> 01:31:31,920
processes in these filterings we do that

2054
01:31:36,770 --> 01:31:34,139
today

2055
01:31:38,330 --> 01:31:36,780
um but it it certainly with enough time

2056
01:31:39,950 --> 01:31:38,340
and money we could certainly collect

2057
01:31:42,410 --> 01:31:39,960
that data and I think it but it would be

2058
01:31:44,570 --> 01:31:42,420
a we'd have to look at the challenge of

2059
01:31:46,550 --> 01:31:44,580
in of how we would go about modifying

2060
01:31:48,649 --> 01:31:46,560
the systems or introducing new ways to

2061
01:31:50,270 --> 01:31:48,659
collect that that raw data as you as you

2062
01:31:52,370 --> 01:31:50,280
described certainly it's feasible it's

2063
01:31:53,450 --> 01:31:52,380
possible but it's not without technical

2064
01:31:56,930 --> 01:31:53,460
challenge

2065
01:31:58,729 --> 01:31:56,940
yes 184 balloon flights daily are those

2066
01:32:00,470 --> 01:31:58,739
characterized or they just you just know

2067
01:32:02,209 --> 01:32:00,480
they do that and then they end up where

2068
01:32:04,370 --> 01:32:02,219
they are so under the balloon I'll call

2069
01:32:06,649 --> 01:32:04,380
it part 101 the regulations for balloons

2070
01:32:08,450 --> 01:32:06,659
there's very specific requirements so

2071
01:32:09,950 --> 01:32:08,460
for National Weather Service before they

2072
01:32:12,290 --> 01:32:09,960
release those they'll contact the local

2073
01:32:13,669 --> 01:32:12,300
Air Traffic facility they're going to

2074
01:32:15,709 --> 01:32:13,679
say here's what time I'm going to

2075
01:32:17,870 --> 01:32:15,719
release it and when they release it they

2076
01:32:20,750 --> 01:32:17,880
have tracking and they provide that

2077
01:32:24,470 --> 01:32:20,760
tracking to the air traffic control

2078
01:32:26,209 --> 01:32:24,480
facility throughout the flight of of you

2079
01:32:27,950 --> 01:32:26,219
know that particular blend there are

2080
01:32:29,810 --> 01:32:27,960
commercial balloons that are also

2081
01:32:32,689 --> 01:32:29,820
launched but those most for the most

2082
01:32:35,390 --> 01:32:32,699
part as I understand that have they

2083
01:32:37,310 --> 01:32:35,400
actually transmit their GPS position in

2084
01:32:39,649 --> 01:32:37,320
support of where they're flying so as to

2085
01:32:41,330 --> 01:32:39,659
ensure they're not interfering with with

2086
01:32:43,850 --> 01:32:41,340
their traffic and to ensure they are

2087
01:32:46,729 --> 01:32:43,860
traffic controllers are aware of where

2088
01:32:51,830 --> 01:32:46,739
those those balloons are operating

2089
01:32:55,250 --> 01:32:53,510
um from traffic control but what about

2090
01:32:57,110 --> 01:32:55,260
from the non-cooperative surveillance

2091
01:32:59,689 --> 01:32:57,120
has there been anomalies from the

2092
01:33:01,750 --> 01:32:59,699
sensors themselves and if so what is the

2093
01:33:04,970 --> 01:33:01,760
process for that

2094
01:33:07,430 --> 01:33:04,980
I'd say the fa mission is not around

2095
01:33:10,490 --> 01:33:07,440
anomalies with the the non-cooperative

2096
01:33:12,890 --> 01:33:10,500
sensors themselves so as we build an air

2097
01:33:14,270 --> 01:33:12,900
traffic control picture we we have both

2098
01:33:16,189 --> 01:33:14,280
the non-cooperative systems which

2099
01:33:18,830 --> 01:33:16,199
detects the target we have a Cooperative

2100
01:33:22,070 --> 01:33:18,840
system that also detects a Target and we

2101
01:33:24,950 --> 01:33:22,080
will tend to merge those those uh

2102
01:33:27,050 --> 01:33:24,960
targets together and so on a

2103
01:33:30,050 --> 01:33:27,060
controller's display they'll know is

2104
01:33:32,990 --> 01:33:30,060
this a non-cooperative only or a merged

2105
01:33:35,090 --> 01:33:33,000
or combined Target so that they know you

2106
01:33:37,250 --> 01:33:35,100
know basically an increased level of

2107
01:33:39,890 --> 01:33:37,260
confidence that on what it is they're

2108
01:33:43,310 --> 01:33:39,900
seeing is in fact a real aircraft so we

2109
01:33:44,930 --> 01:33:43,320
don't just make any real distinction uh

2110
01:33:47,149 --> 01:33:44,940
between a non-cooperative and a

2111
01:33:48,950 --> 01:33:47,159
Cooperative other than how they get

2112
01:33:49,850 --> 01:33:48,960
combined and put on a controller's

2113
01:33:53,149 --> 01:33:49,860
display

2114
01:33:58,729 --> 01:33:55,490
uh so so like a ga flight that does

2115
01:34:01,490 --> 01:33:58,739
notice flying visual flight rules those

2116
01:34:02,689 --> 01:34:01,500
will just be picked up by the if they're

2117
01:34:04,430 --> 01:34:02,699
even if they don't if they're not

2118
01:34:07,189 --> 01:34:04,440
equipped with with a court with a

2119
01:34:08,930 --> 01:34:07,199
Cooperative uh avionics those would just

2120
01:34:11,689 --> 01:34:08,940
be picked up by the non-cooperative

2121
01:34:14,030 --> 01:34:11,699
system that if they happen to surveil

2122
01:34:15,350 --> 01:34:14,040
where that aircraft is is flying and so

2123
01:34:17,629 --> 01:34:15,360
that certainly will be put on the

2124
01:34:19,810 --> 01:34:17,639
controller's display and they will be

2125
01:34:22,070 --> 01:34:19,820
able to provide

2126
01:34:25,310 --> 01:34:22,080
awareness in fact there's a flight

2127
01:34:28,490 --> 01:34:25,320
following a procedure by which GA Pilots

2128
01:34:30,950 --> 01:34:28,500
can ask for a I'm not I'm not squawking

2129
01:34:34,250 --> 01:34:30,960
or not a Cooperative system

2130
01:34:36,050 --> 01:34:34,260
but please help me and just via the

2131
01:34:38,629 --> 01:34:36,060
radio I'm gonna going from here to here

2132
01:34:40,610 --> 01:34:38,639
and and providing awareness uh

2133
01:34:42,470 --> 01:34:40,620
situational awareness if the controller

2134
01:34:43,310 --> 01:34:42,480
has the bandwidth to to provide that

2135
01:34:46,250 --> 01:34:43,320
data

2136
01:34:47,750 --> 01:34:46,260
one last question yes so I'm not a

2137
01:34:50,169 --> 01:34:47,760
scientist I'm a recovering attorney and

2138
01:34:52,910 --> 01:34:50,179
I love process and a few questions there

2139
01:34:55,490 --> 01:34:52,920
if I'm a pilot where do I find that

2140
01:34:57,950 --> 01:34:55,500
process for reporting uaps where is that

2141
01:34:59,750 --> 01:34:57,960
articulated or captured second when you

2142
01:35:01,370 --> 01:34:59,760
mentioned that you're reporting these

2143
01:35:03,590 --> 01:35:01,380
incidents who are you reporting it to

2144
01:35:04,910 --> 01:35:03,600
and are those incidents pulling on the

2145
01:35:07,729 --> 01:35:04,920
thread that Reggie started are they

2146
01:35:10,850 --> 01:35:07,739
being archived anywhere I believe they

2147
01:35:13,250 --> 01:35:10,860
are archived they're reported to the

2148
01:35:16,910 --> 01:35:13,260
domestic Network event Network it's an

2149
01:35:19,310 --> 01:35:16,920
fa organization or or function

2150
01:35:21,590 --> 01:35:19,320
um I don't I I can't speak to whether

2151
01:35:24,169 --> 01:35:21,600
for whether they would be say part of

2152
01:35:27,410 --> 01:35:24,179
what Sean would would include as part of

2153
01:35:29,149 --> 01:35:27,420
his database I presume so

2154
01:35:30,709 --> 01:35:29,159
um so I can think that was the answer to

2155
01:35:32,209 --> 01:35:30,719
the second question uh what was the

2156
01:35:34,610 --> 01:35:32,219
first question again I'm sorry where

2157
01:35:36,709 --> 01:35:34,620
does the reporting process live if I'm a

2158
01:35:38,209 --> 01:35:36,719
pilot I see a uip where do I go to find

2159
01:35:40,189 --> 01:35:38,219
that I don't know the answer to that

2160
01:35:41,870 --> 01:35:40,199
question I said I'm familiar with the

2161
01:35:43,550 --> 01:35:41,880
reporting process from a controller

2162
01:35:46,490 --> 01:35:43,560
perspective and the order that's that's

2163
01:35:48,890 --> 01:35:46,500
used to define how controllers do their

2164
01:35:50,450 --> 01:35:48,900
job I am not I I don't know the answer

2165
01:35:53,770 --> 01:35:50,460
to the question from a pilot perspective

2166
01:35:59,270 --> 01:35:56,510
great so uh thank you Mike for your

2167
01:36:00,830 --> 01:35:59,280
presentation and uh for the all the help

2168
01:36:02,629 --> 01:36:00,840
the FAA has given us as we've been

2169
01:36:05,689 --> 01:36:02,639
learning more about the very impressive

2170
01:36:09,050 --> 01:36:05,699
system that the FAA maintains uh thank

2171
01:36:11,390 --> 01:36:09,060
you I know you know for me one of the

2172
01:36:13,129 --> 01:36:11,400
many takeaways from this is uh filling

2173
01:36:15,649 --> 01:36:13,139
it you know just a little bit safer

2174
01:36:17,390 --> 01:36:15,659
every time I fly and thankful for you

2175
01:36:21,050 --> 01:36:17,400
and your colleagues for what they do to

2176
01:36:23,270 --> 01:36:21,060
make that possible thank you and we're

2177
01:36:26,570 --> 01:36:23,280
now going to take a quick lunch break

2178
01:36:28,550 --> 01:36:26,580
we'll be back at 12 30.

2179
01:36:43,790 --> 01:36:28,560
um and uh

2180
01:36:48,110 --> 01:36:46,970
well we weren't really expecting too

2181
01:36:50,629 --> 01:36:48,120
much

2182
01:36:52,910 --> 01:36:50,639
but it actually some interesting things

2183
01:36:54,709 --> 01:36:52,920
in there I'm going to go over

2184
01:36:58,430 --> 01:36:54,719
unless you guys have specific questions

2185
01:37:04,070 --> 01:37:01,310
I'm not completely focused this early so

2186
01:37:07,850 --> 01:37:04,080
I'm going to go through

2187
01:37:10,070 --> 01:37:07,860
some tweets that

2188
01:37:12,470 --> 01:37:10,080
folks are putting on Twitter

2189
01:37:14,570 --> 01:37:12,480
um rizvark did a really great job I'll

2190
01:37:20,270 --> 01:37:14,580
show you his summaries and we

2191
01:37:24,649 --> 01:37:22,310
why don't people believe anything NASA

2192
01:37:26,570 --> 01:37:24,659
and its parents parent organization says

2193
01:37:29,570 --> 01:37:26,580
they're like all lying eight-year-old

2194
01:37:31,550 --> 01:37:29,580
whose mothers works nights none that not

2195
01:37:34,550 --> 01:37:31,560
all these most of these people have

2196
01:37:37,310 --> 01:37:34,560
nothing to do with whatever lies NASA

2197
01:37:38,450 --> 01:37:37,320
has allegedly told in the past in the

2198
01:37:40,990 --> 01:37:38,460
past

2199
01:37:44,270 --> 01:37:41,000
you know I for one think that there's

2200
01:37:47,149 --> 01:37:44,280
structures artificial structures on Mars

2201
01:37:50,450 --> 01:37:47,159
I won't won't know for sure until we get

2202
01:37:51,950 --> 01:37:50,460
up there and have ground truth but these

2203
01:37:54,169 --> 01:37:51,960
folks don't know about that so you need

2204
01:37:56,030 --> 01:37:54,179
to separate for the history from what's

2205
01:37:57,770 --> 01:37:56,040
going on now this is this is positive

2206
01:38:00,290 --> 01:37:57,780
what's going on now especially for the

2207
01:38:02,450 --> 01:38:00,300
General Public

2208
01:38:03,950 --> 01:38:02,460
um they don't know what we know they

2209
01:38:05,810 --> 01:38:03,960
don't know about whistleblowers they

2210
01:38:07,610 --> 01:38:05,820
don't know about what's allegedly going

2211
01:38:09,290 --> 01:38:07,620
on behind the scenes they don't know

2212
01:38:11,810 --> 01:38:09,300
about an alleged

2213
01:38:13,430 --> 01:38:11,820
Washington Post article that's coming up

2214
01:38:15,110 --> 01:38:13,440
so

2215
01:38:19,370 --> 01:38:15,120
not too bad

2216
01:38:23,510 --> 01:38:19,380
standpoint

2217
01:38:29,030 --> 01:38:26,330
let me kill this audio completely

2218
01:38:31,010 --> 01:38:29,040
so they're at lunch now and I'm gonna

2219
01:38:33,229 --> 01:38:31,020
pull this down for now and I'm gonna

2220
01:38:35,689 --> 01:38:33,239
bring up

2221
01:38:37,550 --> 01:38:35,699
the tweets I was referencing just to go

2222
01:38:42,410 --> 01:38:37,560
over it again

2223
01:38:47,990 --> 01:38:46,310
and I'm wearing my Sony shirt that I got

2224
01:38:51,229 --> 01:38:48,000
when I worked I've been working for Sony

2225
01:38:54,229 --> 01:38:51,239
when they come for various conventions

2226
01:38:57,590 --> 01:38:54,239
and this time they gave me a

2227
01:39:01,129 --> 01:38:57,600
shirt so that's what my shirt is and let

2228
01:39:07,189 --> 01:39:04,729
res rizworks who was written about the

2229
01:39:10,070 --> 01:39:07,199
simulation that we're allegedly in

2230
01:39:12,290 --> 01:39:10,080
you pull up his tweets

2231
01:39:15,229 --> 01:39:12,300
here we go I'll just go through what he

2232
01:39:17,870 --> 01:39:15,239
said so I can now I can at least

2233
01:39:19,129 --> 01:39:17,880
add in some of my own comments and let

2234
01:39:24,169 --> 01:39:19,139
me know if you have any problems with

2235
01:39:27,350 --> 01:39:26,030
so we started out

2236
01:39:30,770 --> 01:39:27,360
um

2237
01:39:33,770 --> 01:39:30,780
talking about how members of the panel

2238
01:39:36,050 --> 01:39:33,780
have received harassment

2239
01:39:38,390 --> 01:39:36,060
for looking into this and it's probably

2240
01:39:41,149 --> 01:39:38,400
coming from both sides probably from the

2241
01:39:43,610 --> 01:39:41,159
people who think you know they're hiding

2242
01:39:46,610 --> 01:39:43,620
things from us so

2243
01:39:48,410 --> 01:39:46,620
the quote-unquote Believers and don't

2244
01:39:50,030 --> 01:39:48,420
take that as disparaging I'm just

2245
01:39:51,950 --> 01:39:50,040
separating Believers from the Skeptics

2246
01:39:54,890 --> 01:39:51,960
and I'm sure the Skeptics are on their

2247
01:39:56,450 --> 01:39:54,900
case for wasting time thanks Stars

2248
01:39:57,410 --> 01:39:56,460
starfish

2249
01:39:59,689 --> 01:39:57,420
um

2250
01:40:02,149 --> 01:39:59,699
so there are people probably on their

2251
01:40:04,610 --> 01:40:02,159
case for even wasting time looking into

2252
01:40:06,890 --> 01:40:04,620
this because they know UFOs are nonsense

2253
01:40:08,390 --> 01:40:06,900
so they're probably getting I would like

2254
01:40:10,370 --> 01:40:08,400
to know what kind of harassment they're

2255
01:40:11,990 --> 01:40:10,380
talking about if it's just critic no I

2256
01:40:14,750 --> 01:40:12,000
don't agree with anything

2257
01:40:15,830 --> 01:40:14,760
where anybody harassing anybody involved

2258
01:40:17,570 --> 01:40:15,840
in this

2259
01:40:18,970 --> 01:40:17,580
um even Kirkpatrick got some really

2260
01:40:21,229 --> 01:40:18,980
strong

2261
01:40:22,490 --> 01:40:21,239
criticisms that I think went over the

2262
01:40:26,209 --> 01:40:22,500
line if you're not going to present

2263
01:40:28,550 --> 01:40:26,219
evidence accuse him accusing him of X Y

2264
01:40:31,129 --> 01:40:28,560
and Z but never presenting evidence to

2265
01:40:36,350 --> 01:40:34,010
um res says that the data they talked

2266
01:40:38,270 --> 01:40:36,360
about the data being far you know has

2267
01:40:40,370 --> 01:40:38,280
been unreliable and it's been impossible

2268
01:40:41,450 --> 01:40:40,380
to draw scientific conclusions Mickey

2269
01:40:43,729 --> 01:40:41,460
Fox

2270
01:40:45,350 --> 01:40:43,739
publicly available data

2271
01:40:49,129 --> 01:40:45,360
of course

2272
01:40:51,709 --> 01:40:49,139
but we all know there is data that

2273
01:40:54,470 --> 01:40:51,719
supposedly will blow our socks off if we

2274
01:40:56,209 --> 01:40:54,480
ever get to see it so that's the same

2275
01:40:59,090 --> 01:40:56,219
old story what we get to see publicly

2276
01:41:02,030 --> 01:40:59,100
and what supposedly supposedly exists

2277
01:41:03,709 --> 01:41:02,040
privately is is night and day but we

2278
01:41:05,870 --> 01:41:03,719
haven't seen the private data so we're

2279
01:41:09,770 --> 01:41:05,880
stuck with public data which makes it

2280
01:41:11,629 --> 01:41:09,780
really easy for Skeptics to debunk

2281
01:41:13,550 --> 01:41:11,639
because there isn't you know we have

2282
01:41:16,070 --> 01:41:13,560
tons of anecdotes and we have government

2283
01:41:17,810 --> 01:41:16,080
documents but we don't have you know and

2284
01:41:20,090 --> 01:41:17,820
on and on and on we all know about that

2285
01:41:22,729 --> 01:41:20,100
what we don't have

2286
01:41:25,370 --> 01:41:22,739
is something that blows us away you know

2287
01:41:27,590 --> 01:41:25,380
we have gimbal go fast and the Tic Tac

2288
01:41:28,550 --> 01:41:27,600
but and and the TIC tac's a great case

2289
01:41:32,930 --> 01:41:28,560
but

2290
01:41:35,090 --> 01:41:32,940
like we really we want to see something

2291
01:41:37,609 --> 01:41:35,100
making right angle turns

2292
01:41:39,950 --> 01:41:37,619
instant or almost instantaneous

2293
01:41:43,370 --> 01:41:39,960
acceleration and we don't have that

2294
01:41:45,890 --> 01:41:43,380
supposedly we have amazing videos and

2295
01:41:46,910 --> 01:41:45,900
photos well we haven't seen it publicly

2296
01:41:48,590 --> 01:41:46,920
and

2297
01:41:52,129 --> 01:41:48,600
unless you have clearances you're not

2298
01:41:56,810 --> 01:41:54,950
AP data from VOD is often classified

2299
01:41:59,450 --> 01:41:56,820
because of the sensors not because of

2300
01:42:02,510 --> 01:41:59,460
the actual data and she referenced the

2301
01:42:04,370 --> 01:42:02,520
Statue of Liberty

2302
01:42:06,290 --> 01:42:04,380
um you know if you take a picture of the

2303
01:42:08,149 --> 01:42:06,300
Statue of Liberty well it's it's

2304
01:42:11,030 --> 01:42:08,159
classified because it's taken with

2305
01:42:14,390 --> 01:42:11,040
sensors it's like well we've seen sensor

2306
01:42:16,550 --> 01:42:14,400
video released a few days after it

2307
01:42:18,649 --> 01:42:16,560
happened with you know a Chinese plane

2308
01:42:21,470 --> 01:42:18,659
coming in a Russian plane they release

2309
01:42:24,470 --> 01:42:21,480
it right away so they can release UFO

2310
01:42:26,750 --> 01:42:24,480
videos we all know that that's part of

2311
01:42:29,090 --> 01:42:26,760
their excuse which is nonsense I

2312
01:42:30,590 --> 01:42:29,100
understand some of it yeah sensors I

2313
01:42:32,990 --> 01:42:30,600
understand that's part of the reason but

2314
01:42:34,609 --> 01:42:33,000
it's not all that's not the explanation

2315
01:42:37,010 --> 01:42:34,619
there there's another reason why they're

2316
01:42:38,810 --> 01:42:37,020
not releasing it because in my mind

2317
01:42:43,430 --> 01:42:38,820
and then I think everybody's mind if

2318
01:42:45,530 --> 01:42:43,440
they release something that is clear-cut

2319
01:42:48,770 --> 01:42:45,540
technology that we don't have at least

2320
01:42:53,570 --> 01:42:48,780
publicly it's gonna just it the public

2321
01:42:55,669 --> 01:42:53,580
and the media love they love videos so

2322
01:42:57,470 --> 01:42:55,679
that would really give a boost to this

2323
01:42:58,729 --> 01:42:57,480
conversation and I think it would wake

2324
01:43:01,189 --> 01:42:58,739
up a lot of people

2325
01:43:03,229 --> 01:43:01,199
who have not really realized have who

2326
01:43:06,530 --> 01:43:03,239
have not yet realized this is a real

2327
01:43:09,830 --> 01:43:08,570
and I'm just rizz is just summarizing

2328
01:43:11,629 --> 01:43:09,840
what was said and I'm going to summarize

2329
01:43:15,229 --> 01:43:11,639
and add to it it was it's not our goal

2330
01:43:17,870 --> 01:43:15,239
to solve uaps but to give NASA a road

2331
01:43:20,270 --> 01:43:17,880
map if I were to summarize in one line

2332
01:43:22,070 --> 01:43:20,280
our conclusions we need high quality

2333
01:43:25,129 --> 01:43:22,080
data and that was from David spurgle

2334
01:43:27,470 --> 01:43:25,139
NASA UAP panel lead

2335
01:43:29,930 --> 01:43:27,480
yeah we need high quality data but we

2336
01:43:31,609 --> 01:43:29,940
supposedly have it on same thing Sparkle

2337
01:43:32,570 --> 01:43:31,619
said on scientific anomalies talking

2338
01:43:34,850 --> 01:43:32,580
about

2339
01:43:36,830 --> 01:43:34,860
fast radio bursts

2340
01:43:38,390 --> 01:43:36,840
in microwave signals spiking at

2341
01:43:39,709 --> 01:43:38,400
lunchtime like he's like

2342
01:43:41,209 --> 01:43:39,719
well

2343
01:43:42,350 --> 01:43:41,219
we had this measurement but then we

2344
01:43:44,209 --> 01:43:42,360
realized it was coming from the

2345
01:43:46,129 --> 01:43:44,219
microwave it's like yeah we realize that

2346
01:43:48,169 --> 01:43:46,139
measurements can be

2347
01:43:51,109 --> 01:43:48,179
inaccurate and there could be a natural

2348
01:43:53,090 --> 01:43:51,119
explanation we know all of that and fast

2349
01:43:55,010 --> 01:43:53,100
radio bursts I don't pretend to

2350
01:43:57,290 --> 01:43:55,020
understand them but

2351
01:43:59,689 --> 01:43:57,300
they have baffled scientists if you look

2352
01:44:01,609 --> 01:43:59,699
it up if you if you Google Fast radio

2353
01:44:04,370 --> 01:44:01,619
bursts they're really interesting these

2354
01:44:05,450 --> 01:44:04,380
these bursts that come in high energy

2355
01:44:07,189 --> 01:44:05,460
um they don't know where they're coming

2356
01:44:09,410 --> 01:44:07,199
from there's lots of theories they have

2357
01:44:14,149 --> 01:44:09,420
not been able to explain it

2358
01:44:16,490 --> 01:44:14,159
explain them you talked about Sprites

2359
01:44:18,590 --> 01:44:16,500
which were reported by pilots but not

2360
01:44:20,270 --> 01:44:18,600
they weren't believed until good data

2361
01:44:23,930 --> 01:44:20,280
came in from the International Space

2362
01:44:26,990 --> 01:44:23,940
Station his point was that

2363
01:44:31,669 --> 01:44:28,970
instruments need to be calibrated to get

2364
01:44:34,129 --> 01:44:31,679
good data but that anomalies can lead to

2365
01:44:38,689 --> 01:44:34,139
new discoveries

2366
01:44:46,070 --> 01:44:42,550
uh then Kirkpatrick got up and he said

2367
01:44:49,850 --> 01:44:46,080
unlike the NASA team

2368
01:44:52,310 --> 01:44:49,860
we are looking at classified data so

2369
01:44:55,550 --> 01:44:52,320
I really would love for Chris melon or

2370
01:44:59,870 --> 01:44:55,560
Lou Elizondo to jump in and tell us are

2371
01:45:02,930 --> 01:44:59,880
they s Is Kirkpatrick and arrow seeing

2372
01:45:08,090 --> 01:45:02,940
the 23 minute video that supposedly

2373
01:45:13,790 --> 01:45:10,490
um Kirkpatrick said that we have shared

2374
01:45:16,250 --> 01:45:13,800
the data for a small set of cases which

2375
01:45:18,830 --> 01:45:16,260
are truly anomalous and they've shared

2376
01:45:23,570 --> 01:45:18,840
those with appropriately cleared NASA

2377
01:45:28,550 --> 01:45:25,729
this is interesting and potentially

2378
01:45:31,010 --> 01:45:28,560
significant this is from Riz

2379
01:45:34,010 --> 01:45:31,020
since this NASA panel is only looking at

2380
01:45:36,830 --> 01:45:34,020
unclassified data

2381
01:45:39,350 --> 01:45:36,840
I would love to hear from the people in

2382
01:45:41,570 --> 01:45:39,360
NASA who have seen the classified data

2383
01:45:44,390 --> 01:45:41,580
and get their opinions I don't see why

2384
01:45:46,370 --> 01:45:44,400
that is classified just give us your

2385
01:45:48,290 --> 01:45:46,380
general opinions on what you've seen

2386
01:45:50,450 --> 01:45:48,300
that's why I don't understand why

2387
01:45:54,109 --> 01:45:50,460
Congress can't do that why can't

2388
01:45:58,550 --> 01:45:54,119
Congress give me why can't

2389
01:46:04,129 --> 01:46:02,030
anybody else in Congress

2390
01:46:05,810 --> 01:46:04,139
billabrand why can't they say you know

2391
01:46:08,030 --> 01:46:05,820
what I can't talk about the classified

2392
01:46:10,609 --> 01:46:08,040
data I've seen but I can tell you how I

2393
01:46:13,790 --> 01:46:10,619
reacted when I saw it they can do that I

2394
01:46:16,250 --> 01:46:13,800
think they can do that but they have not

2395
01:46:18,470 --> 01:46:16,260
uh Kirkpatrick of Arrow he said the dod

2396
01:46:20,870 --> 01:46:18,480
sensors are not scientific sensors or

2397
01:46:22,790 --> 01:46:20,880
calibrated for scientific data but are

2398
01:46:24,649 --> 01:46:22,800
optimized for finding and tracking

2399
01:46:25,970 --> 01:46:24,659
weapons yeah he talked about that in his

2400
01:46:32,450 --> 01:46:25,980
hearing

2401
01:46:36,590 --> 01:46:34,850
Kirkpatrick put up various charts images

2402
01:46:39,470 --> 01:46:36,600
from iPhones are not helpful in

2403
01:46:41,510 --> 01:46:39,480
identifying UAP but ancillary data is

2404
01:46:46,070 --> 01:46:41,520
potentially useful we need scientific

2405
01:46:49,729 --> 01:46:46,080
instruments yeah I mean Public public

2406
01:46:52,010 --> 01:46:49,739
UFO videos usually are really weak there

2407
01:46:53,629 --> 01:46:52,020
are a few that are interesting but for

2408
01:46:55,129 --> 01:46:53,639
the most part I usually don't share them

2409
01:46:56,570 --> 01:46:55,139
on Twitter because they're they don't

2410
01:46:58,310 --> 01:46:56,580
show much

2411
01:47:04,010 --> 01:46:58,320
usually a ball of light in the sky

2412
01:47:08,930 --> 01:47:06,649
uh Kirkpatrick

2413
01:47:11,270 --> 01:47:08,940
our data shows collection bias because

2414
01:47:16,070 --> 01:47:11,280
that's where the sensors are we we know

2415
01:47:21,950 --> 01:47:18,950
there has to be some reports over our

2416
01:47:24,229 --> 01:47:21,960
oceans and bodies of water I don't know

2417
01:47:26,810 --> 01:47:24,239
if he's talking about official reports

2418
01:47:28,970 --> 01:47:26,820
from various you know Noah I don't know

2419
01:47:31,970 --> 01:47:28,980
exactly what that means

2420
01:47:33,950 --> 01:47:31,980
um Kirkpatrick I have classified sensors

2421
01:47:35,689 --> 01:47:33,960
in various locations and I'd like to be

2422
01:47:37,970 --> 01:47:35,699
able to pass off data to academic

2423
01:47:41,750 --> 01:47:37,980
scientific sensors and then that data

2424
01:47:47,930 --> 01:47:44,930
Mr Patrick said the dod the dod sensors

2425
01:47:51,050 --> 01:47:47,940
aren't painted at the places we want

2426
01:47:52,790 --> 01:47:51,060
a lot of what we have is around the

2427
01:47:55,010 --> 01:47:52,800
continental United States most people

2428
01:47:57,890 --> 01:47:55,020
don't like it when DOD points high

2429
01:48:00,350 --> 01:47:57,900
resolution sensors in their backyards

2430
01:48:02,870 --> 01:48:00,360
some ground-based detectors will need to

2431
01:48:05,090 --> 01:48:02,880
be there we are evaluating sensors being

2432
01:48:07,910 --> 01:48:05,100
built for similar or other purposes that

2433
01:48:10,010 --> 01:48:07,920
we can recalibrate

2434
01:48:12,169 --> 01:48:10,020
take the Target and put it in your

2435
01:48:13,609 --> 01:48:12,179
sensor and see it

2436
01:48:15,770 --> 01:48:13,619
registering this is potentially

2437
01:48:17,990 --> 01:48:15,780
significant if they're going to add

2438
01:48:20,870 --> 01:48:18,000
sensors in areas where

2439
01:48:22,910 --> 01:48:20,880
it doesn't say if if they're picking up

2440
01:48:24,470 --> 01:48:22,920
UAP in those areas that's the sense I

2441
01:48:26,510 --> 01:48:24,480
get and they need to get better sensors

2442
01:48:27,890 --> 01:48:26,520
in those areas where they know UAP is

2443
01:48:31,430 --> 01:48:27,900
showing up

2444
01:48:32,870 --> 01:48:31,440
and certain folks probably

2445
01:48:34,910 --> 01:48:32,880
I don't know if it's contractors or

2446
01:48:35,510 --> 01:48:34,920
government they don't want

2447
01:48:38,270 --> 01:48:35,520
um

2448
01:48:41,750 --> 01:48:38,280
sensors pointed out there sensitive

2449
01:48:42,649 --> 01:48:41,760
areas I mean there's no details on that

2450
01:48:45,229 --> 01:48:42,659
um

2451
01:48:47,270 --> 01:48:45,239
but understandable obviously

2452
01:48:50,209 --> 01:48:47,280
if you have something that's sensitive

2453
01:48:52,970 --> 01:48:50,219
and you find out the dod is

2454
01:48:55,609 --> 01:48:52,980
pointing their sensors at in your

2455
01:49:01,669 --> 01:48:58,669
let's see and then we got to this chart

2456
01:49:03,290 --> 01:49:01,679
how many anomalous cases are there you

2457
01:49:06,709 --> 01:49:03,300
know I think during the hearing it was 6

2458
01:49:09,109 --> 01:49:06,719
50 or so and now there's 800 plus total

2459
01:49:11,270 --> 01:49:09,119
uh which is a single digit percentage of

2460
01:49:14,810 --> 01:49:11,280
about the reports they get you know two

2461
01:49:17,030 --> 01:49:14,820
to five percent are anomalous

2462
01:49:19,490 --> 01:49:17,040
and he put the chart up again

2463
01:49:22,930 --> 01:49:19,500
we saw during the hearing with

2464
01:49:27,229 --> 01:49:25,430
Kirkpatrick not all reports are single

2465
01:49:29,810 --> 01:49:27,239
sensor some are multi-sensor he didn't

2466
01:49:33,350 --> 01:49:29,820
say how many

2467
01:49:35,330 --> 01:49:33,360
and Kirkpatrick on Arrow stigma also

2468
01:49:38,990 --> 01:49:35,340
exists inside government buildings and

2469
01:49:43,250 --> 01:49:41,149
they've been harassed also I don't know

2470
01:49:45,290 --> 01:49:43,260
what he means by harass is it you know

2471
01:49:47,209 --> 01:49:45,300
is it over the top criticism on on

2472
01:49:49,310 --> 01:49:47,219
Twitter is it beyond that he didn't he

2473
01:49:51,109 --> 01:49:49,320
didn't detail that

2474
01:49:53,090 --> 01:49:51,119
he said harassment by the public who

2475
01:49:55,850 --> 01:49:53,100
want answers doesn't help with the

2476
01:49:57,950 --> 01:49:55,860
stigma it actually makes it worse

2477
01:50:00,470 --> 01:49:57,960
the problem is

2478
01:50:02,689 --> 01:50:00,480
we all know or we've been told that that

2479
01:50:05,450 --> 01:50:02,699
Kirkpatrick has spoken to whistleblowers

2480
01:50:06,830 --> 01:50:05,460
and he has not brought it up how's it

2481
01:50:08,450 --> 01:50:06,840
going pix

2482
01:50:10,129 --> 01:50:08,460
um so he has not brought it up and I

2483
01:50:11,510 --> 01:50:10,139
don't see why he can't at least address

2484
01:50:13,609 --> 01:50:11,520
it and say

2485
01:50:17,510 --> 01:50:13,619
it is true this is my Kirkpatrick

2486
01:50:19,669 --> 01:50:17,520
impersonation it is true that there have

2487
01:50:23,810 --> 01:50:19,679
been whistleblowers who have told me

2488
01:50:26,750 --> 01:50:23,820
where to look for specific UAP related

2489
01:50:30,169 --> 01:50:26,760
special access programs but I don't have

2490
01:50:32,990 --> 01:50:30,179
the clearances as of yet to go and look

2491
01:50:34,189 --> 01:50:33,000
to see if that's true or not obviously

2492
01:50:37,129 --> 01:50:34,199
he's not I don't think he would say

2493
01:50:39,290 --> 01:50:37,139
exactly that but he can reference that

2494
01:50:41,270 --> 01:50:39,300
some of the whistleblowers have told me

2495
01:50:44,689 --> 01:50:41,280
some very interesting information

2496
01:50:47,330 --> 01:50:44,699
that I have not been able to verify yet

2497
01:50:49,609 --> 01:50:47,340
um so but he won't he doesn't talk about

2498
01:50:51,890 --> 01:50:49,619
that at all so it gets people upset and

2499
01:50:53,570 --> 01:50:51,900
then people start to criticize and they

2500
01:50:55,490 --> 01:50:53,580
see this kind of data and they say this

2501
01:50:57,050 --> 01:50:55,500
is boring we know you're hearing more

2502
01:50:59,390 --> 01:50:57,060
just tell us

2503
01:51:02,209 --> 01:50:59,400
that's why

2504
01:51:04,729 --> 01:51:02,219
an article in the Washington Post or New

2505
01:51:06,530 --> 01:51:04,739
York Times related to whistleblowers or

2506
01:51:09,290 --> 01:51:06,540
crash retrievals

2507
01:51:12,050 --> 01:51:09,300
is really important and hopefully we

2508
01:51:15,890 --> 01:51:12,060
will get that like I said that article

2509
01:51:18,470 --> 01:51:15,900
was in the works as far as I know still

2510
01:51:23,030 --> 01:51:18,480
is in the works and fingers crossed we

2511
01:51:23,040 --> 01:51:26,149
and then you put up

2512
01:51:31,850 --> 01:51:27,950
so that's

2513
01:51:33,290 --> 01:51:31,860
there's more from folks have put up

2514
01:51:35,270 --> 01:51:33,300
videos of Kirkpatrick on Twitter

2515
01:51:36,950 --> 01:51:35,280
hopefully everybody's on Twitter even if

2516
01:51:37,970 --> 01:51:36,960
you don't like Twitter you can get an

2517
01:51:41,330 --> 01:51:37,980
account

2518
01:51:43,910 --> 01:51:41,340
follow a small a very small amount of

2519
01:51:46,129 --> 01:51:43,920
accounts and you can just stay up to

2520
01:51:47,510 --> 01:51:46,139
date on everything

2521
01:51:50,990 --> 01:51:47,520
because there's some really good Twitter

2522
01:51:53,570 --> 01:51:51,000
accounts updating you know all day every

2523
01:51:57,109 --> 01:51:53,580
day I do a lot but there are other folks

2524
01:51:59,330 --> 01:51:57,119
that are just 20 it's 24 7.

2525
01:52:01,550 --> 01:51:59,340
um a guy from the FAA got up and said

2526
01:52:04,609 --> 01:52:01,560
you know different altitudes

2527
01:52:06,410 --> 01:52:04,619
uh a function of the line of measuring

2528
01:52:09,050 --> 01:52:06,420
you know what they can analyze what they

2529
01:52:10,910 --> 01:52:09,060
can collect data on uh it's from

2530
01:52:12,229 --> 01:52:10,920
different altitudes and it's primarily a

2531
01:52:15,890 --> 01:52:12,239
function of line of sight at those

2532
01:52:18,770 --> 01:52:15,900
altitudes uh 880 000 registered

2533
01:52:20,810 --> 01:52:18,780
registered registered small drones in

2534
01:52:22,970 --> 01:52:20,820
the United States

2535
01:52:25,609 --> 01:52:22,980
and I'm gonna go to back I'm going to go

2536
01:52:26,930 --> 01:52:25,619
to some of some other folks you can see

2537
01:52:29,510 --> 01:52:26,940
some live stuff

2538
01:52:30,890 --> 01:52:29,520
here's Mick West saying Sean Kirkpatrick

2539
01:52:33,050 --> 01:52:30,900
highly trained pilots can make

2540
01:52:34,669 --> 01:52:33,060
occasional mistakes here are three

2541
01:52:36,410 --> 01:52:34,679
distant planes that were misidentified

2542
01:52:38,990 --> 01:52:36,420
yeah so

2543
01:52:40,609 --> 01:52:39,000
Kirkpatrick showed three planes and

2544
01:52:42,109 --> 01:52:40,619
there was some movement or he saw three

2545
01:52:44,149 --> 01:52:42,119
objects they looked some there was some

2546
01:52:45,950 --> 01:52:44,159
movement and he said that's from the

2547
01:52:47,570 --> 01:52:45,960
sensor and he's like all this and then

2548
01:52:49,250 --> 01:52:47,580
they they try to

2549
01:52:50,570 --> 01:52:49,260
I don't know if he said track he saw he

2550
01:52:51,950 --> 01:52:50,580
tried to catch up with these objects

2551
01:52:54,229 --> 01:52:51,960
they could not I'm like oh this is

2552
01:52:56,810 --> 01:52:54,239
really interesting and then he said but

2553
01:53:00,290 --> 01:52:56,820
when we looked further into this it

2554
01:53:02,810 --> 01:53:00,300
turned out they were planes about to

2555
01:53:04,790 --> 01:53:02,820
land so why waste our time on that we

2556
01:53:06,470 --> 01:53:04,800
know people make mistakes there's

2557
01:53:09,350 --> 01:53:06,480
nothing new here

2558
01:53:12,649 --> 01:53:09,360
just like when Mick West said the mosul

2559
01:53:14,810 --> 01:53:12,659
orb was a puddle and then we saw a

2560
01:53:16,729 --> 01:53:14,820
similar video like the mosul orb that

2561
01:53:18,770 --> 01:53:16,739
showed an object moving which I think

2562
01:53:20,750 --> 01:53:18,780
it's pretty clear the mosul orb is the

2563
01:53:22,850 --> 01:53:20,760
same type of object we just haven't seen

2564
01:53:25,669 --> 01:53:22,860
the video yet we've seen a photo

2565
01:53:27,709 --> 01:53:25,679
but Mick West his his default is always

2566
01:53:30,169 --> 01:53:27,719
to explain it he's done some good work

2567
01:53:33,290 --> 01:53:30,179
some good and now analysis on videos but

2568
01:53:35,149 --> 01:53:33,300
his default on the Tic Tac early on was

2569
01:53:37,370 --> 01:53:35,159
well David fravor saw a bird or a

2570
01:53:39,890 --> 01:53:37,380
reflection and then Chad Underwood shot

2571
01:53:42,890 --> 01:53:39,900
a distant plane the gimbal is a distant

2572
01:53:44,510 --> 01:53:42,900
plane early on go fast oh well it's a

2573
01:53:47,750 --> 01:53:44,520
bird it's the same thing with him it's

2574
01:53:50,689 --> 01:53:47,760
never he always and and people say to me

2575
01:53:52,070 --> 01:53:50,699
well are you saying it's an alien no I

2576
01:53:54,290 --> 01:53:52,080
didn't say that I'm saying it's

2577
01:54:00,590 --> 01:53:54,300
unidentified it's an unknown it's

2578
01:54:05,810 --> 01:54:03,470
imagine harassing imagine harassing this

2579
01:54:08,570 --> 01:54:05,820
is a UFO Jesus

2580
01:54:10,310 --> 01:54:08,580
harassing UFO scientists for pursuing

2581
01:54:11,990 --> 01:54:10,320
the UAP issue

2582
01:54:13,370 --> 01:54:12,000
yeah it won't age well it depends on

2583
01:54:15,350 --> 01:54:13,380
what side you're talking about it's not

2584
01:54:18,830 --> 01:54:15,360
good on either side just let them do

2585
01:54:20,390 --> 01:54:18,840
their job we can we can criticize within

2586
01:54:22,609 --> 01:54:20,400
our own Community as long as it doesn't

2587
01:54:24,530 --> 01:54:22,619
go over the top

2588
01:54:27,649 --> 01:54:24,540
I'm gonna go back to what some other

2589
01:54:31,129 --> 01:54:27,659
folks were tweeting out

2590
01:54:34,729 --> 01:54:31,139
besides Riz who did a great job

2591
01:54:39,709 --> 01:54:37,370
tiny class is another account that does

2592
01:54:41,090 --> 01:54:39,719
a lot of a lot of tweeting during the

2593
01:54:43,010 --> 01:54:41,100
day is a good follow

2594
01:54:45,770 --> 01:54:43,020
Kirkpatrick says there are now 800

2595
01:54:49,129 --> 01:54:45,780
result unresolved UAP cases like I said

2596
01:54:51,470 --> 01:54:49,139
and at the hearing it was 6.50

2597
01:54:53,209 --> 01:54:51,480
I want to find the um

2598
01:54:54,830 --> 01:54:53,219
and there's some really good charts in

2599
01:54:56,870 --> 01:54:54,840
here

2600
01:54:59,330 --> 01:54:56,880
that have been tweeted out

2601
01:55:01,850 --> 01:54:59,340
talking about

2602
01:55:03,709 --> 01:55:01,860
recommendations for NASA that Sean

2603
01:55:06,169 --> 01:55:03,719
Kirkpatrick put out

2604
01:55:09,290 --> 01:55:06,179
I'm not going to go into all of that

2605
01:55:10,609 --> 01:55:09,300
one interesting

2606
01:55:14,510 --> 01:55:10,619
the most interesting thing that

2607
01:55:19,970 --> 01:55:17,270
we see these metallic orbs all over the

2608
01:55:22,910 --> 01:55:19,980
world and we see these making very

2609
01:55:25,490 --> 01:55:22,920
interesting apparent Maneuvers so what

2610
01:55:28,129 --> 01:55:25,500
are they what are those orbs

2611
01:55:31,609 --> 01:55:28,139
and

2612
01:55:36,410 --> 01:55:34,370
thinking about the orbs

2613
01:55:38,750 --> 01:55:36,420
and said but I thought some game

2614
01:55:40,970 --> 01:55:38,760
designer said it was a puddle of water

2615
01:55:43,790 --> 01:55:40,980
that's Mick West that was his

2616
01:55:46,609 --> 01:55:43,800
explanation it was a puddle

2617
01:55:48,770 --> 01:55:46,619
it's just so ridiculous it's like

2618
01:55:52,189 --> 01:55:48,780
I'm torn because some of his video

2619
01:55:56,629 --> 01:55:52,199
analysis like he he showed in my opinion

2620
01:56:01,129 --> 01:55:59,090
as far as I can tell from looking at his

2621
01:56:03,350 --> 01:56:01,139
work and

2622
01:56:05,689 --> 01:56:03,360
listening to the witnesses which I still

2623
01:56:08,510 --> 01:56:05,699
have an open mind on it turns out that

2624
01:56:10,430 --> 01:56:08,520
those were flares that's what it looks

2625
01:56:12,050 --> 01:56:10,440
like so his work on that was good he's

2626
01:56:15,169 --> 01:56:12,060
done some other good work

2627
01:56:20,810 --> 01:56:18,109
um but everything he says when he tries

2628
01:56:21,950 --> 01:56:20,820
to explain any UFO case is a prosaic

2629
01:56:23,870 --> 01:56:21,960
answer

2630
01:56:27,169 --> 01:56:23,880
all right enough enough of that enough

2631
01:56:32,209 --> 01:56:30,050
saying that we all know that

2632
01:56:32,870 --> 01:56:32,219
some more of Riz

2633
01:56:38,870 --> 01:56:32,880
um

2634
01:56:42,109 --> 01:56:38,880
from Brazil so he he was tweeting out in

2635
01:56:45,350 --> 01:56:42,119
Portuguese which was great for folks

2636
01:56:50,870 --> 01:56:48,229
trying to think what else I missed if

2637
01:56:55,609 --> 01:56:50,880
anybody else has comments let me know

2638
01:57:00,229 --> 01:56:57,350
and I've talked about it before I met

2639
01:57:03,350 --> 01:57:00,239
one of the whistleblowers Last Summer

2640
01:57:08,930 --> 01:57:03,360
guy was really really sharp

2641
01:57:13,790 --> 01:57:10,729
God was really sharp

2642
01:57:16,209 --> 01:57:13,800
I stumbled upon it I wasn't

2643
01:57:19,209 --> 01:57:16,219
it wasn't anything I did it was somebody

2644
01:57:22,729 --> 01:57:19,219
introduced me to this person

2645
01:57:24,589 --> 01:57:22,739
and at the time I didn't know they were

2646
01:57:26,390 --> 01:57:24,599
a whistleblower but I knew they were

2647
01:57:28,629 --> 01:57:26,400
involved with UFOs and I knew they

2648
01:57:31,370 --> 01:57:28,639
worked somewhere in the government

2649
01:57:34,609 --> 01:57:31,380
probably intelligence

2650
01:57:36,830 --> 01:57:34,619
for an intelligence agency so

2651
01:57:39,770 --> 01:57:36,840
I asked that person you know

2652
01:57:42,770 --> 01:57:39,780
various questions and they explained to

2653
01:57:45,169 --> 01:57:42,780
me in their opinion why certain groups

2654
01:57:46,970 --> 01:57:45,179
want to keep this quiet why they want to

2655
01:57:48,770 --> 01:57:46,980
keep it secret some groups you know they

2656
01:57:50,510 --> 01:57:48,780
have the technology and they just want

2657
01:57:53,450 --> 01:57:50,520
to keep it to themselves others don't

2658
01:57:56,629 --> 01:57:53,460
want to rock the boat and basically

2659
01:57:57,770 --> 01:57:56,639
upset the world

2660
01:57:59,390 --> 01:57:57,780
um

2661
01:58:00,950 --> 01:57:59,400
by putting out this information that

2662
01:58:02,810 --> 01:58:00,960
would just

2663
01:58:03,830 --> 01:58:02,820
you know undermine religions and things

2664
01:58:06,530 --> 01:58:03,840
like that

2665
01:58:08,750 --> 01:58:06,540
and then we had the the Evangelical

2666
01:58:10,370 --> 01:58:08,760
event Evangelical Christians which he

2667
01:58:12,350 --> 01:58:10,380
told me you know we know who those we

2668
01:58:15,050 --> 01:58:12,360
know who those people are

2669
01:58:17,030 --> 01:58:15,060
like it wasn't a really big deal as far

2670
01:58:20,810 --> 01:58:17,040
as the overall

2671
01:58:22,550 --> 01:58:20,820
groups of folks who want this kept quiet

2672
01:58:25,370 --> 01:58:22,560
um and then and I'll get to your

2673
01:58:27,709 --> 01:58:25,380
question in a second Rick

2674
01:58:29,930 --> 01:58:27,719
and this person also told me some of the

2675
01:58:32,810 --> 01:58:29,940
harassment that they had gone you know

2676
01:58:35,149 --> 01:58:32,820
been subject to intimidation and I don't

2677
01:58:36,649 --> 01:58:35,159
want to give specific intimidation what

2678
01:58:38,510 --> 01:58:36,659
he told me

2679
01:58:40,310 --> 01:58:38,520
because I don't want this person because

2680
01:58:41,810 --> 01:58:40,320
other people may know the story and

2681
01:58:43,370 --> 01:58:41,820
they're like oh

2682
01:58:46,129 --> 01:58:43,380
he's sharing that story I just don't

2683
01:58:48,470 --> 01:58:46,139
want to give specifics that can

2684
01:58:50,570 --> 01:58:48,480
that can you know help others figure out

2685
01:58:52,189 --> 01:58:50,580
who this person is and like I said on

2686
01:58:55,570 --> 01:58:52,199
Twitter I hope people hear from him

2687
01:58:57,649 --> 01:58:55,580
because he's a really really good

2688
01:58:59,930 --> 01:58:57,659
non-ufo person from what I could tell

2689
01:59:01,609 --> 01:58:59,940
who got involved and has a lot of things

2690
01:59:04,850 --> 01:59:01,619
to say

2691
01:59:08,390 --> 01:59:04,860
know

2692
01:59:12,709 --> 01:59:10,609
what do you think of Anjali crawling

2693
01:59:13,609 --> 01:59:12,719
back out from she was always around on

2694
01:59:14,689 --> 01:59:13,619
Twitter

2695
01:59:17,810 --> 01:59:14,699
um

2696
01:59:20,390 --> 01:59:17,820
and Ramirez says that

2697
01:59:23,030 --> 01:59:20,400
the UAP task force interviewed her he

2698
01:59:24,950 --> 01:59:23,040
swears that they did and she said they

2699
01:59:27,530 --> 01:59:24,960
did and Jay Stratton who was the head

2700
01:59:30,350 --> 01:59:27,540
one of the heads of the UAP task force

2701
01:59:32,510 --> 01:59:30,360
the original had did denied it through

2702
01:59:33,770 --> 01:59:32,520
Tim McMillan so I don't know

2703
01:59:36,649 --> 01:59:33,780
you know

2704
01:59:38,870 --> 01:59:36,659
I don't have a problem with her I I

2705
01:59:41,510 --> 01:59:38,880
don't really follow her I wrote One blog

2706
01:59:43,790 --> 01:59:41,520
early on on her which is still still on

2707
01:59:44,990 --> 01:59:43,800
my on my blog

2708
01:59:47,149 --> 01:59:45,000
um

2709
01:59:50,149 --> 01:59:47,159
the CAA just needs to come out and say

2710
01:59:53,570 --> 01:59:50,159
hey let us keep muddying the water

2711
01:59:55,910 --> 01:59:53,580
we're here trust us you know the ca CAA

2712
01:59:57,709 --> 01:59:55,920
is definitely in in this deep why

2713
02:00:00,770 --> 01:59:57,719
wouldn't they be of course every agency

2714
02:00:03,470 --> 02:00:00,780
is involved in this people who think

2715
02:00:05,270 --> 02:00:03,480
they're not I think you know why would

2716
02:00:06,890 --> 02:00:05,280
you not you have unknown objects in our

2717
02:00:08,810 --> 02:00:06,900
airspace everybody wants to know what

2718
02:00:09,770 --> 02:00:08,820
that what that is

2719
02:00:11,870 --> 02:00:09,780
um

2720
02:00:13,490 --> 02:00:11,880
and I don't I'm not to the point where

2721
02:00:15,290 --> 02:00:13,500
I'm going to debate it with Skeptics who

2722
02:00:17,089 --> 02:00:15,300
say well we really don't have proof we

2723
02:00:19,490 --> 02:00:17,099
don't have proof

2724
02:00:20,930 --> 02:00:19,500
um yeah we do I think it's overwhelming

2725
02:00:22,609 --> 02:00:20,940
in a court of law we can prove that

2726
02:00:24,890 --> 02:00:22,619
there are objects

2727
02:00:26,629 --> 02:00:24,900
in our airspace and let me just go

2728
02:00:28,609 --> 02:00:26,639
through live Twitter

2729
02:00:32,030 --> 02:00:28,619
um

2730
02:00:37,010 --> 02:00:34,550
I don't have the audio from that do we

2731
02:00:39,649 --> 02:00:37,020
so John um Jeremy's talking about the

2732
02:00:41,270 --> 02:00:39,659
the citizen hearing on disclosure which

2733
02:00:44,149 --> 02:00:41,280
is on

2734
02:00:46,490 --> 02:00:44,159
YouTube you could see the entire thing

2735
02:00:48,169 --> 02:00:46,500
it was cleaned up it was

2736
02:00:49,729 --> 02:00:48,179
I mean it looks really good for

2737
02:00:51,109 --> 02:00:49,739
something I forget the date of when it

2738
02:00:54,229 --> 02:00:51,119
was but it looks really good and here

2739
02:00:55,970 --> 02:00:54,239
that's John Callahan talking about John

2740
02:00:58,850 --> 02:00:55,980
Callahan was

2741
02:01:00,770 --> 02:00:58,860
with the FAA when the Japan Airlines

2742
02:01:03,250 --> 02:01:00,780
incident happened and they had he had

2743
02:01:06,649 --> 02:01:03,260
radar of the object

2744
02:01:08,510 --> 02:01:06,659
and the FBI I believe came in and

2745
02:01:11,149 --> 02:01:08,520
confiscated it or they told him to

2746
02:01:12,530 --> 02:01:11,159
destroy everything but he did not

2747
02:01:13,729 --> 02:01:12,540
it's one of the few times we've had

2748
02:01:18,350 --> 02:01:13,739
radar

2749
02:01:19,910 --> 02:01:18,360
the 2019 instance which a lot of people

2750
02:01:22,850 --> 02:01:19,920
still think

2751
02:01:25,550 --> 02:01:22,860
are drones I I don't know what that was

2752
02:01:27,410 --> 02:01:25,560
but it's not Chinese drones I do not

2753
02:01:30,490 --> 02:01:27,420
believe that and

2754
02:01:33,649 --> 02:01:30,500
you guys will get to hear more from

2755
02:01:36,169 --> 02:01:33,659
hopefully the next couple of days when

2756
02:01:39,050 --> 02:01:36,179
Jay Stratton and Travis Taylor spoke at

2757
02:01:41,629 --> 02:01:39,060
alien con and spoke about that case in

2758
02:01:46,430 --> 02:01:43,970
let's see if I can find anything else

2759
02:01:51,050 --> 02:01:46,440
new so yeah we're on a lunch break right

2760
02:01:54,709 --> 02:01:53,030
are they did Kirkpatrick could talk

2761
02:01:56,930 --> 02:01:54,719
about the five eyes who were briefed the

2762
02:02:02,629 --> 02:01:56,940
last week that's the United States

2763
02:02:08,270 --> 02:02:04,669
New Zealand

2764
02:02:13,609 --> 02:02:10,970
no NASA has not mentioned any sightings

2765
02:02:15,410 --> 02:02:13,619
in space alleged sightings of UFOs we've

2766
02:02:18,050 --> 02:02:15,420
seen we've seen videos over the years

2767
02:02:19,729 --> 02:02:18,060
that look like UFOs or have been

2768
02:02:22,189 --> 02:02:19,739
explained as

2769
02:02:24,050 --> 02:02:22,199
ice crystals being jettisoned by the

2770
02:02:26,570 --> 02:02:24,060
space shuttles

2771
02:02:28,930 --> 02:02:26,580
rocket boosters and taking off and

2772
02:02:33,410 --> 02:02:28,940
people said no it was a UFO that was

2773
02:02:34,790 --> 02:02:33,420
escaping a ground-based weapon I don't

2774
02:02:36,649 --> 02:02:34,800
know we don't have anything clear-cut

2775
02:02:38,330 --> 02:02:36,659
from NASA footage and if they have their

2776
02:02:44,689 --> 02:02:38,340
own footage that's

2777
02:02:51,950 --> 02:02:48,709
uh Nick Pope who ran a UFO desk in the

2778
02:02:54,189 --> 02:02:51,960
UK Nick Pope has a lot of detractors for

2779
02:02:56,870 --> 02:02:54,199
me I I'm not a fan of him being

2780
02:02:58,850 --> 02:02:56,880
connected to Stephen Green Street I

2781
02:03:01,550 --> 02:02:58,860
don't know if he still is but

2782
02:03:04,430 --> 02:03:01,560
Nick says for UK journalists covering

2783
02:03:07,910 --> 02:03:04,440
the NASA UAP meeting

2784
02:03:10,010 --> 02:03:07,920
I can't overstate

2785
02:03:11,750 --> 02:03:10,020
the significance of the five eyes

2786
02:03:14,030 --> 02:03:11,760
statement

2787
02:03:15,830 --> 02:03:14,040
the ministry of Defense has previously

2788
02:03:18,649 --> 02:03:15,840
refused to comment on whether it's

2789
02:03:22,490 --> 02:03:18,659
liaison liaising with arrow and the mod

2790
02:03:26,149 --> 02:03:22,500
axed their UFO desk in 2009 so it's good

2791
02:03:31,129 --> 02:03:28,729
Ariel Elizabeth talks about the

2792
02:03:32,450 --> 02:03:31,139
stigma that was mentioned several times

2793
02:03:35,149 --> 02:03:32,460
during

2794
02:03:36,890 --> 02:03:35,159
the panel and so stigma is still a big

2795
02:03:39,050 --> 02:03:36,900
issue and hopefully

2796
02:03:40,729 --> 02:03:39,060
anybody harassing these people needs to

2797
02:03:42,830 --> 02:03:40,739
need to stop

2798
02:03:52,310 --> 02:03:42,840
critical being critical is fine but

2799
02:03:56,510 --> 02:03:54,229
so music and Truth says he certainly

2800
02:04:00,229 --> 02:03:56,520
harassed Nadia Drake for saying she

2801
02:04:05,390 --> 02:04:03,649
she got a lot of flack for that comment

2802
02:04:07,250 --> 02:04:05,400
yeah I don't know if that's considered

2803
02:04:08,570 --> 02:04:07,260
harassment or not

2804
02:04:10,430 --> 02:04:08,580
so

2805
02:04:12,410 --> 02:04:10,440
unless they specifically tell us I

2806
02:04:15,050 --> 02:04:12,420
really came coming coming they're coming

2807
02:04:16,729 --> 02:04:15,060
back in the room yes thank you

2808
02:04:26,209 --> 02:04:16,739
let me get it back

2809
02:04:30,210 --> 02:04:29,810
share screen boom

2810
02:04:31,790 --> 02:04:30,220
boom

2811
02:04:35,930 --> 02:04:31,800
[Music]

2812
02:04:43,370 --> 02:04:38,390
should be back audio they're just quiet

2813
02:04:43,380 --> 02:04:47,030
foreign

2814
02:04:51,709 --> 02:04:50,510
I just think maybe he doesn't have that

2815
02:04:53,089 --> 02:04:51,719
data

2816
02:04:55,070 --> 02:04:53,099
um

2817
02:04:57,709 --> 02:04:55,080
I don't think he's lying

2818
02:05:00,229 --> 02:04:57,719
at the at the the most you could say of

2819
02:05:01,850 --> 02:05:00,239
Kirkpatrick he's very conservative and

2820
02:05:03,350 --> 02:05:01,860
he's not going to say more than he has

2821
02:05:05,149 --> 02:05:03,360
to

2822
02:05:06,649 --> 02:05:05,159
like I said with whistleblowers he

2823
02:05:08,209 --> 02:05:06,659
doesn't want to talk about that maybe he

2824
02:05:10,490 --> 02:05:08,219
has been told do not talk about

2825
02:05:12,410 --> 02:05:10,500
whistleblowers unless you're asked about

2826
02:05:15,050 --> 02:05:12,420
Witnesses you can see say something

2827
02:05:17,750 --> 02:05:15,060
basic but do not go anything into depth

2828
02:05:19,310 --> 02:05:17,760
of what you're being told

2829
02:05:21,109 --> 02:05:19,320
Kirkpatrick said entering the water

2830
02:05:23,390 --> 02:05:21,119
videos has been explained I think he

2831
02:05:25,490 --> 02:05:23,400
said it was a sensor anomaly and I

2832
02:05:29,209 --> 02:05:25,500
missed that I saw somebody tweet it they

2833
02:05:31,070 --> 02:05:29,219
would be releasing info later

2834
02:05:33,410 --> 02:05:31,080
um yeah I don't know if that's what he's

2835
02:05:35,270 --> 02:05:33,420
talking about the splash splash video

2836
02:05:37,070 --> 02:05:35,280
that Jeremy put out

2837
02:05:38,810 --> 02:05:37,080
um then you have Aguadilla that looks

2838
02:05:40,550 --> 02:05:38,820
like it goes into the water but it's not

2839
02:05:42,109 --> 02:05:40,560
clear-cut

2840
02:05:43,729 --> 02:05:42,119
um

2841
02:05:45,109 --> 02:05:43,739
yeah we've been told these are trans

2842
02:05:47,689 --> 02:05:45,119
medium I mean that's one of the five

2843
02:05:49,430 --> 02:05:47,699
observables Lou has spoken about trans

2844
02:05:51,589 --> 02:05:49,440
medium travel so

2845
02:05:53,450 --> 02:05:51,599
do we have any classified data on that I

2846
02:05:55,669 --> 02:05:53,460
mean if there is and he's saying the

2847
02:05:57,290 --> 02:05:55,679
opposite that would be a lie but so I

2848
02:05:58,669 --> 02:05:57,300
don't think he I don't know I don't know

2849
02:06:00,890 --> 02:05:58,679
what to think on that

2850
02:06:04,609 --> 02:06:00,900
and hopefully

2851
02:06:07,910 --> 02:06:04,619
oh no wonder I haven't paused damn it

2852
02:06:10,070 --> 02:06:07,920
sorry but

2853
02:06:11,870 --> 02:06:10,080
[Music]

2854
02:06:15,109 --> 02:06:11,880
just

2855
02:06:15,119 --> 02:06:17,930
get up

2856
02:06:17,940 --> 02:06:21,709
sorry about that

2857
02:06:26,870 --> 02:06:23,270
not really behind because I'm catching

2858
02:06:33,589 --> 02:06:28,609
and I'm having some computer issues

2859
02:06:33,599 --> 02:06:37,970
I lost my oh there we go concert

2860
02:06:41,270 --> 02:06:40,609
all right we're live now good

2861
02:06:42,589 --> 02:06:41,280
um

2862
02:06:43,970 --> 02:06:42,599
yeah I don't know I'm really curious to

2863
02:06:45,350 --> 02:06:43,980
see what he comes up with on that I

2864
02:06:48,229 --> 02:06:45,360
don't know why

2865
02:06:50,209 --> 02:06:48,239
he would go out of his way to to mislead

2866
02:06:51,890 --> 02:06:50,219
us on trans medium

2867
02:06:54,530 --> 02:06:51,900
but maybe he has he has something

2868
02:06:56,629 --> 02:06:54,540
clear-cut that shows

2869
02:06:58,609 --> 02:06:56,639
the videos we've seen so far are not

2870
02:07:00,950 --> 02:06:58,619
trans medium I know Jeremy Corbell has

2871
02:07:02,450 --> 02:07:00,960
spoken about he has spoken to Witnesses

2872
02:07:05,570 --> 02:07:02,460
I believe

2873
02:07:07,550 --> 02:07:05,580
who feel they I don't know if they saw

2874
02:07:09,050 --> 02:07:07,560
objects coming in and out of the water I

2875
02:07:11,990 --> 02:07:09,060
think they were folks in helicopters

2876
02:07:13,850 --> 02:07:12,000
related to the 2019 incidents

2877
02:07:15,770 --> 02:07:13,860
who went out looking but I'm not sure

2878
02:07:18,470 --> 02:07:15,780
about that I mean don't do not quote me

2879
02:07:21,709 --> 02:07:20,270
yeah I don't know what kind of music

2880
02:07:23,930 --> 02:07:21,719
they have

2881
02:07:25,729 --> 02:07:23,940
a series a short presentations by

2882
02:07:29,629 --> 02:07:25,739
members of the panel and their thoughts

2883
02:07:31,370 --> 02:07:29,639
on different aspects of our charge

2884
02:07:34,189 --> 02:07:31,380
and the format is we're going to have

2885
02:07:35,990 --> 02:07:34,199
them come up to the podium and speak

2886
02:07:37,729 --> 02:07:36,000
and I'm going to ask each of the

2887
02:07:40,010 --> 02:07:37,739
speakers then to take questions it's

2888
02:07:42,050 --> 02:07:40,020
actually the angle with this setup is

2889
02:07:43,850 --> 02:07:42,060
you you can see the people better from

2890
02:07:45,350 --> 02:07:43,860
the podium than I can where it's hard to

2891
02:07:49,070 --> 02:07:45,360
see people behind you

2892
02:07:51,950 --> 02:07:49,080
I'm going to try to keep manage the time

2893
02:07:53,570 --> 02:07:51,960
so as those questions you know come to

2894
02:07:54,589 --> 02:07:53,580
an end I'll cut you off and bring up the

2895
02:07:58,129 --> 02:07:54,599
next speaker

2896
02:08:00,109 --> 02:07:58,139
and we'll move through the the six

2897
02:08:02,810 --> 02:08:00,119
topics and then we'll have some time at

2898
02:08:05,629 --> 02:08:02,820
the end for some general discussion

2899
02:08:07,970 --> 02:08:05,639
uh the first speaker will be Dr Nadia

2900
02:08:11,209 --> 02:08:07,980
Drake talking about framing the issues

2901
02:08:11,219 --> 02:08:14,709
thank you

2902
02:08:19,990 --> 02:08:17,930
hello and welcome back from lunch

2903
02:08:22,310 --> 02:08:20,000
everybody and uh welcome to those of you

2904
02:08:24,169 --> 02:08:22,320
watching us virtually

2905
02:08:26,270 --> 02:08:24,179
um I'm Nadia I am a Scientist by

2906
02:08:29,450 --> 02:08:26,280
training I'm also a science journalist

2907
02:08:31,070 --> 02:08:29,460
now and my job is to try and synthesize

2908
02:08:34,129 --> 02:08:31,080
the information that we've learned so

2909
02:08:36,649 --> 02:08:34,139
far and summarize the situation so if

2910
02:08:39,410 --> 02:08:36,659
you will put together a framework for

2911
02:08:41,750 --> 02:08:39,420
thinking about UAP now I'm going to try

2912
02:08:43,490 --> 02:08:41,760
and do this in a way that reflects the

2913
02:08:45,649 --> 02:08:43,500
thoughts of the entire panel although

2914
02:08:48,229 --> 02:08:45,659
obviously we have a variety of opinions

2915
02:08:50,149 --> 02:08:48,239
and ideas Among Us so I'd like to leave

2916
02:08:52,250 --> 02:08:50,159
some time at the end for you to weigh in

2917
02:08:53,510 --> 02:08:52,260
with disagreements or concurrences as

2918
02:08:56,390 --> 02:08:53,520
needed

2919
02:08:58,850 --> 02:08:56,400
so first a housekeeping matter the

2920
02:09:00,910 --> 02:08:58,860
definition of UAP changed during the

2921
02:09:03,530 --> 02:09:00,920
seven months of our fact-finding process

2922
02:09:05,629 --> 02:09:03,540
UAP initially stood for unidentified

2923
02:09:07,310 --> 02:09:05,639
aerial phenomena with Ariel referring to

2924
02:09:10,070 --> 02:09:07,320
events occurring in Earth's atmosphere

2925
02:09:12,350 --> 02:09:10,080
that a is now defined as anomalous which

2926
02:09:14,570 --> 02:09:12,360
includes the space air and undersea

2927
02:09:16,370 --> 02:09:14,580
domains as a panel I think we have

2928
02:09:18,350 --> 02:09:16,380
decided to continue focusing our

2929
02:09:20,030 --> 02:09:18,360
recommendations on the aerial domain

2930
02:09:22,250 --> 02:09:20,040
because that is where the majority of

2931
02:09:24,109 --> 02:09:22,260
sightings and events have occurred and

2932
02:09:25,609 --> 02:09:24,119
also because we couldn't fully pivot to

2933
02:09:28,189 --> 02:09:25,619
address the expanded scope of the new

2934
02:09:32,990 --> 02:09:30,290
beyond that there are three points I

2935
02:09:35,570 --> 02:09:33,000
want to make the first is that for UAP

2936
02:09:39,229 --> 02:09:35,580
are obviously quite interesting right

2937
02:09:41,209 --> 02:09:39,239
that is why we are here

2938
02:09:43,370 --> 02:09:41,219
recently many credible Witnesses have

2939
02:09:45,229 --> 02:09:43,380
reported seeing unidentified objects in

2940
02:09:48,470 --> 02:09:45,239
the sky some of which are behaving

2941
02:09:50,689 --> 02:09:48,480
rather peculiarly peculiarly

2942
02:09:52,189 --> 02:09:50,699
in some instances these reports include

2943
02:09:54,709 --> 02:09:52,199
corroborating data from various

2944
02:09:57,530 --> 02:09:54,719
instruments various sensors

2945
02:09:59,390 --> 02:09:57,540
the challenge that we have is that the

2946
02:10:01,910 --> 02:09:59,400
data needed to explain these anomalous

2947
02:10:04,070 --> 02:10:01,920
sightings often do not exist or

2948
02:10:05,930 --> 02:10:04,080
incomplete for generating a conclusive

2949
02:10:08,689 --> 02:10:05,940
analysis

2950
02:10:10,370 --> 02:10:08,699
this includes eyewitness reports which

2951
02:10:12,530 --> 02:10:10,380
on their own can be interesting and

2952
02:10:14,330 --> 02:10:12,540
compelling but often lack the

2953
02:10:17,689 --> 02:10:14,340
information needed to make definitive

2954
02:10:19,669 --> 02:10:17,699
conclusions about an object's provenance

2955
02:10:21,470 --> 02:10:19,679
we as a panel are thinking about the

2956
02:10:23,570 --> 02:10:21,480
types of data that might add value to

2957
02:10:25,490 --> 02:10:23,580
those reports and which could be useful

2958
02:10:28,850 --> 02:10:25,500
on their own

2959
02:10:31,070 --> 02:10:28,860
as a corollary to date in the refereed

2960
02:10:32,810 --> 02:10:31,080
scientific literature there is no

2961
02:10:36,109 --> 02:10:32,820
conclusive evidence suggesting an

2962
02:10:38,209 --> 02:10:36,119
extraterrestrial origin for UAP

2963
02:10:40,250 --> 02:10:38,219
collecting more good data for the

2964
02:10:41,930 --> 02:10:40,260
scientific Community to review in a

2965
02:10:46,850 --> 02:10:41,940
peer-reviewed context will be important

2966
02:10:46,860 --> 02:10:49,970
foreign

2967
02:10:55,430 --> 02:10:53,450
UAP offer an excellent opportunity to

2968
02:10:58,129 --> 02:10:55,440
demonstrate the power of the scientific

2969
02:10:59,750 --> 02:10:58,139
method and of empirically addressing a

2970
02:11:00,950 --> 02:10:59,760
question using a multi-disciplinary

2971
02:11:03,290 --> 02:11:00,960
approach

2972
02:11:05,270 --> 02:11:03,300
it is our job as a panel to make some

2973
02:11:07,910 --> 02:11:05,280
recommendations about how NASA might go

2974
02:11:09,470 --> 02:11:07,920
about tackling this topic scientifically

2975
02:11:13,129 --> 02:11:09,480
taking advantage of the agency's

2976
02:11:15,709 --> 02:11:13,139
resources Global Outreach and reputation

2977
02:11:17,930 --> 02:11:15,719
key points to keep in mind here

2978
02:11:19,490 --> 02:11:17,940
are that science is hypo science is

2979
02:11:21,709 --> 02:11:19,500
hypothesis driven

2980
02:11:24,550 --> 02:11:21,719
scientists build confidence in their

2981
02:11:26,810 --> 02:11:24,560
theories by relying on well-calibrated

2982
02:11:29,209 --> 02:11:26,820
well-collected data using

2983
02:11:32,990 --> 02:11:29,219
well-established methods with rigorous

2984
02:11:36,410 --> 02:11:33,000
evaluation and independent corroboration

2985
02:11:38,030 --> 02:11:36,420
in science skepticism is not a bias nor

2986
02:11:40,310 --> 02:11:38,040
is it a bad word

2987
02:11:41,990 --> 02:11:40,320
it is not our job to Define nature but

2988
02:11:44,750 --> 02:11:42,000
to study it in ways that let nature

2989
02:11:47,030 --> 02:11:44,760
reveal itself to us regardless of how

2990
02:11:48,709 --> 02:11:47,040
exciting or disappointing that reality

2991
02:11:50,330 --> 02:11:48,719
might be

2992
02:11:52,550 --> 02:11:50,340
and to that end when we're thinking

2993
02:11:53,810 --> 02:11:52,560
about making recommendations about how

2994
02:11:55,970 --> 02:11:53,820
NASA can tackle this topic

2995
02:11:57,589 --> 02:11:55,980
scientifically I think it's important to

2996
02:11:58,910 --> 02:11:57,599
remember that it's not NASA's job to

2997
02:12:00,950 --> 02:11:58,920
replicate the efforts of the Department

2998
02:12:02,990 --> 02:12:00,960
of Defense but rather to consider

2999
02:12:04,729 --> 02:12:03,000
approaches that are complementary to

3000
02:12:07,129 --> 02:12:04,739
what the all domain anomaly resolution

3001
02:12:08,870 --> 02:12:07,139
office is doing

3002
02:12:11,390 --> 02:12:08,880
and so one of the questions that we as a

3003
02:12:13,609 --> 02:12:11,400
panel I think need to Center is what can

3004
02:12:16,550 --> 02:12:13,619
we recommend that NASA can do that the

3005
02:12:20,990 --> 02:12:19,010
third point to that end what are we even

3006
02:12:22,129 --> 02:12:21,000
looking for how are we defining this

3007
02:12:24,109 --> 02:12:22,139
problem

3008
02:12:26,510 --> 02:12:24,119
and how do the available data Define

3009
02:12:28,490 --> 02:12:26,520
what seems to be to borrow a cliche a

3010
02:12:29,750 --> 02:12:28,500
very slender needle in a very big

3011
02:12:31,129 --> 02:12:29,760
haystack

3012
02:12:34,550 --> 02:12:31,139
we heard a little bit about that today

3013
02:12:36,729 --> 02:12:34,560
from Dr Kirkpatrick who reported that

3014
02:12:40,370 --> 02:12:36,739
there have been 800 events

3015
02:12:42,709 --> 02:12:40,380
collected over about 27 years

3016
02:12:44,510 --> 02:12:42,719
and between two and five percent of

3017
02:12:47,030 --> 02:12:44,520
those events display signatures that

3018
02:12:48,950 --> 02:12:47,040
could be anomalous defined as anything

3019
02:12:51,109 --> 02:12:48,960
that is not readily understandable by

3020
02:12:54,229 --> 02:12:51,119
the operator or the sensor something

3021
02:12:58,910 --> 02:12:56,689
Mr free and some of the experts on our

3022
02:13:01,370 --> 02:12:58,920
panel have defined the background on

3023
02:13:04,069 --> 02:13:01,380
which those events exist the amount of

3024
02:13:05,870 --> 02:13:04,079
stuff in the sky at any given time like

3025
02:13:08,629 --> 02:13:05,880
so

3026
02:13:11,209 --> 02:13:08,639
on average FAA air traffic control

3027
02:13:14,390 --> 02:13:11,219
handles 45 000 flights per day in U.S

3028
02:13:15,830 --> 02:13:14,400
airspace with 5400 aircraft in the sky

3029
02:13:17,689 --> 02:13:15,840
at Peak time

3030
02:13:20,330 --> 02:13:17,699
worldwide on average there are about

3031
02:13:22,970 --> 02:13:20,340
1600 weather balloon launches per day

3032
02:13:24,290 --> 02:13:22,980
in the U.S there are at least 184 of

3033
02:13:25,850 --> 02:13:24,300
those balloons launched and that doesn't

3034
02:13:27,410 --> 02:13:25,860
include private companies or research

3035
02:13:29,689 --> 02:13:27,420
flights

3036
02:13:32,330 --> 02:13:29,699
there are about 1.69 million

3037
02:13:33,830 --> 02:13:32,340
recreational or model small uncrewed

3038
02:13:36,709 --> 02:13:33,840
aircraft systems

3039
02:13:38,140 --> 02:13:36,719
and an additional 880 000 drones are

3040
02:13:39,350 --> 02:13:38,150
registered for commercial use

3041
02:13:40,729 --> 02:13:39,360
[Music]

3042
02:13:42,649 --> 02:13:40,739
and these are not controlled by air

3043
02:13:44,270 --> 02:13:42,659
traffic control and they are not

3044
02:13:45,470 --> 02:13:44,280
scheduled flights

3045
02:13:47,890 --> 02:13:45,480
so that's our challenge

3046
02:13:50,270 --> 02:13:47,900
[Music]

3047
02:13:52,069 --> 02:13:50,280
so when making recommendations as a

3048
02:13:54,290 --> 02:13:52,079
panel I think we need to look at what

3049
02:13:56,030 --> 02:13:54,300
kind of imprint we want to leave what

3050
02:13:58,189 --> 02:13:56,040
does the situation look like five years

3051
02:13:59,209 --> 02:13:58,199
from now what does it look like 10 years

3052
02:14:02,030 --> 02:13:59,219
from now

3053
02:14:03,530 --> 02:14:02,040
why are we making these recommendations

3054
02:14:06,109 --> 02:14:03,540
we heard a little bit about this this

3055
02:14:07,609 --> 02:14:06,119
morning from both Mike and David who

3056
02:14:09,709 --> 02:14:07,619
noted that many discoveries in science

3057
02:14:12,530 --> 02:14:09,719
are rooted and initially unexplained and

3058
02:14:14,689 --> 02:14:12,540
bizarre phenomena so by carefully

3059
02:14:17,149 --> 02:14:14,699
scrutinizing the sky or however we end

3060
02:14:18,950 --> 02:14:17,159
up defining our search space and by

3061
02:14:21,050 --> 02:14:18,960
collaborating across disciplines we are

3062
02:14:23,209 --> 02:14:21,060
likely to learn new things about our

3063
02:14:24,950 --> 02:14:23,219
planet that's a fact

3064
02:14:25,970 --> 02:14:24,960
and that's the commensal science case we

3065
02:14:26,970 --> 02:14:25,980
might want to consider when making

3066
02:14:28,129 --> 02:14:26,980
recommendations here

3067
02:14:30,770 --> 02:14:28,139
[Music]

3068
02:14:33,290 --> 02:14:30,780
all right

3069
02:14:37,669 --> 02:14:33,300
does anyone have questions thoughts

3070
02:14:37,679 --> 02:14:40,970
oh Carlin

3071
02:14:45,840 --> 02:14:43,250
I guess I want to challenge a little bit

3072
02:14:51,350 --> 02:14:47,890
[Music]

3073
02:14:53,390 --> 02:14:51,360
but I'm not sure we've precluded

3074
02:14:55,910 --> 02:14:53,400
um anything beyond the aerial for this

3075
02:14:57,490 --> 02:14:55,920
panel and and so I'm just very excited

3076
02:14:59,990 --> 02:14:57,500
because the question for us even though

3077
02:15:02,990 --> 02:15:00,000
mostly what we've seen and I think

3078
02:15:04,850 --> 02:15:03,000
Nash's NASA's mission space will be more

3079
02:15:07,490 --> 02:15:04,860
the aerial

3080
02:15:09,470 --> 02:15:07,500
I agree with you and I think that is a

3081
02:15:11,810 --> 02:15:09,480
parameter that we need to Define as a

3082
02:15:15,950 --> 02:15:14,450
I'll just uh quickly jump in and Echo

3083
02:15:17,990 --> 02:15:15,960
some remarks I made this morning that

3084
02:15:20,750 --> 02:15:18,000
yes the a change from aerial to

3085
02:15:22,729 --> 02:15:20,760
anomalous but it's also accurate to say

3086
02:15:25,189 --> 02:15:22,739
that the preponderance for events

3087
02:15:27,649 --> 02:15:25,199
are in the aerial domain that being said

3088
02:15:29,330 --> 02:15:27,659
your panel scope has expanded outwards

3089
02:15:32,990 --> 02:15:29,340
so I think we'll hear a little bit um

3090
02:15:35,569 --> 02:15:33,000
from David later on that very subject

3091
02:15:37,669 --> 02:15:35,579
I mean I think anomalous

3092
02:15:40,790 --> 02:15:37,679
people often think about it as going

3093
02:15:43,010 --> 02:15:40,800
down including ocean but I think what's

3094
02:15:46,729 --> 02:15:43,020
very relevant for NASA is going out

3095
02:15:48,229 --> 02:15:46,739
right and you know looking at things in

3096
02:15:50,870 --> 02:15:48,239
our solar system

3097
02:15:52,129 --> 02:15:50,880
and I think in some sense

3098
02:15:55,189 --> 02:15:52,139
um I think there's certain

3099
02:15:57,890 --> 02:15:55,199
responsibilities in you know we look at

3100
02:16:01,550 --> 02:15:57,900
airspace there's FAA responsibilities

3101
02:16:03,609 --> 02:16:01,560
there's DOD responsibilities as you get

3102
02:16:06,470 --> 02:16:03,619
further and further away from the earth

3103
02:16:08,990 --> 02:16:06,480
eventually it's all massive

3104
02:16:10,970 --> 02:16:09,000
once you get up you know towards you

3105
02:16:13,550 --> 02:16:10,980
know most certainly much of the solar

3106
02:16:18,169 --> 02:16:13,560
system and out uh to our galaxy that's

3107
02:16:21,050 --> 02:16:18,179
all massive and uh when we start you

3108
02:16:22,250 --> 02:16:21,060
know thinking about things like uh you

3109
02:16:23,990 --> 02:16:22,260
know and this will be you know David

3110
02:16:25,910 --> 02:16:24,000
will get to this observations beyond the

3111
02:16:29,569 --> 02:16:25,920
Earth's atmosphere I think this change

3112
02:16:31,609 --> 02:16:29,579
in language lets us also think about uh

3113
02:16:35,030 --> 02:16:31,619
out you know further out

3114
02:16:36,770 --> 02:16:35,040
in the solar system as well

3115
02:16:39,290 --> 02:16:36,780
good yeah

3116
02:16:41,629 --> 02:16:39,300
other thoughts

3117
02:16:46,669 --> 02:16:41,639
great did I summarize everything totally

3118
02:16:46,679 --> 02:16:56,830
well

3119
02:17:05,270 --> 02:16:58,969
all right

3120
02:17:09,349 --> 02:17:05,280
was the perfect uh intro and segue by Dr

3121
02:17:12,110 --> 02:17:09,359
Drake for addressing why NASA uh what

3122
02:17:13,910 --> 02:17:12,120
what is or what are NASA's roles in UAP

3123
02:17:17,570 --> 02:17:13,920
studies

3124
02:17:19,250 --> 02:17:17,580
so NASA primarily is a science-driven

3125
02:17:22,129 --> 02:17:19,260
agency

3126
02:17:25,190 --> 02:17:22,139
committed to exploring and understanding

3127
02:17:27,169 --> 02:17:25,200
air and space and this includes as we

3128
02:17:29,810 --> 02:17:27,179
were just discussing the unknown right

3129
02:17:31,790 --> 02:17:29,820
whether that's the farthest reaches of

3130
02:17:33,290 --> 02:17:31,800
the universe or right here on our home

3131
02:17:36,349 --> 02:17:33,300
planet

3132
02:17:39,110 --> 02:17:36,359
in that light NASA has over 60 years of

3133
02:17:41,570 --> 02:17:39,120
experience measuring phenomena in air

3134
02:17:43,370 --> 02:17:41,580
and space in space

3135
02:17:45,110 --> 02:17:43,380
um an air that might be Aeronautics

3136
02:17:46,969 --> 02:17:45,120
astronomy

3137
02:17:50,089 --> 02:17:46,979
as well as measuring other Earth

3138
02:17:52,490 --> 02:17:50,099
phenomena and this may include aquatic

3139
02:17:54,169 --> 02:17:52,500
or atmospheric phenomena as well and

3140
02:17:56,089 --> 02:17:54,179
they do this using the unique vantage

3141
02:17:59,209 --> 02:17:56,099
point of space

3142
02:18:02,570 --> 02:17:59,219
NASA's Mission data and Technical

3143
02:18:05,870 --> 02:18:02,580
expertise in science and engineering may

3144
02:18:07,790 --> 02:18:05,880
also help investigate and understand any

3145
02:18:10,790 --> 02:18:07,800
of the reported phenomena

3146
02:18:13,250 --> 02:18:10,800
it makes sense to explore what new

3147
02:18:15,889 --> 02:18:13,260
observations or measurements or studies

3148
02:18:17,929 --> 02:18:15,899
might contribute to the understanding of

3149
02:18:20,929 --> 02:18:17,939
reported phenomena

3150
02:18:22,669 --> 02:18:20,939
in that light uh Dr Fox made this point

3151
02:18:25,910 --> 02:18:22,679
this morning there's a tremendous

3152
02:18:27,830 --> 02:18:25,920
Archive of NASA data these are from

3153
02:18:29,750 --> 02:18:27,840
satellites and other space-based and

3154
02:18:31,610 --> 02:18:29,760
ground networks as well as other assets

3155
02:18:34,549 --> 02:18:31,620
and these are freely and openly

3156
02:18:38,030 --> 02:18:34,559
available to the public

3157
02:18:41,209 --> 02:18:38,040
NASA research as was mentioned also

3158
02:18:43,810 --> 02:18:41,219
supports a wide range of methods

3159
02:18:46,910 --> 02:18:43,820
this includes Advanced Data analysis

3160
02:18:49,490 --> 02:18:46,920
modeling Cutting Edge computational and

3161
02:18:52,429 --> 02:18:49,500
data visualization tools and these are

3162
02:18:53,870 --> 02:18:52,439
all useful for investigating unexplained

3163
02:18:56,929 --> 02:18:53,880
observations

3164
02:18:59,570 --> 02:18:56,939
which may be crucial in studying these

3165
02:19:03,709 --> 02:19:02,509
discoveries and results are all publicly

3166
02:19:05,270 --> 02:19:03,719
available

3167
02:19:07,009 --> 02:19:05,280
and this can be something from the

3168
02:19:09,230 --> 02:19:07,019
characterization of extraterrestrial

3169
02:19:10,129 --> 02:19:09,240
solar planets or the hole in the ozone

3170
02:19:11,929 --> 02:19:10,139
layer

3171
02:19:15,650 --> 02:19:11,939
and these are communicated publicly

3172
02:19:18,230 --> 02:19:15,660
through many outlets through the agency

3173
02:19:19,490 --> 02:19:18,240
NASA also has a long-standing public

3174
02:19:21,889 --> 02:19:19,500
Trust

3175
02:19:24,730 --> 02:19:21,899
this is essential to communicate those

3176
02:19:27,530 --> 02:19:24,740
findings about phenomena to the public

3177
02:19:29,929 --> 02:19:27,540
and as was mentioned several times very

3178
02:19:32,690 --> 02:19:29,939
important to destigmatize

3179
02:19:37,009 --> 02:19:32,700
the reporting and raise awareness of

3180
02:19:39,709 --> 02:19:37,019
cultural and social barriers to doing so

3181
02:19:41,570 --> 02:19:39,719
NASA has a unique strength in leveraging

3182
02:19:43,849 --> 02:19:41,580
public and private Partnerships that

3183
02:19:45,410 --> 02:19:43,859
could result in new technologies that

3184
02:19:47,870 --> 02:19:45,420
may be useful in observing and

3185
02:19:49,370 --> 02:19:47,880
understanding reported phenomena

3186
02:19:51,110 --> 02:19:49,380
these Partners could include other

3187
02:19:55,070 --> 02:19:51,120
federal agencies we've heard from the

3188
02:19:56,870 --> 02:19:55,080
FAA today as well as NOAA was identified

3189
02:19:59,450 --> 02:19:56,880
and they may collect data that could

3190
02:20:02,929 --> 02:19:59,460
help to understand reported phenomena

3191
02:20:05,389 --> 02:20:02,939
in addition NASA has a strong

3192
02:20:07,610 --> 02:20:05,399
record of international collaboration

3193
02:20:09,889 --> 02:20:07,620
which could be beneficial

3194
02:20:12,530 --> 02:20:09,899
to study any of these phenomena as that

3195
02:20:14,630 --> 02:20:12,540
may require Global cooperation and data

3196
02:20:18,050 --> 02:20:14,640
sharing

3197
02:20:20,150 --> 02:20:18,060
and then one thing that really strikes

3198
02:20:22,130 --> 02:20:20,160
me is that new

3199
02:20:24,050 --> 02:20:22,140
understanding of anomalous events really

3200
02:20:26,030 --> 02:20:24,060
comes from when we bring communities

3201
02:20:29,210 --> 02:20:26,040
together interdisciplinary communities

3202
02:20:31,310 --> 02:20:29,220
that would not necessarily collaborate

3203
02:20:33,050 --> 02:20:31,320
um in in in my world that might be

3204
02:20:34,610 --> 02:20:33,060
biological and physical oceanographers

3205
02:20:35,750 --> 02:20:34,620
and I tell people to think a little more

3206
02:20:38,150 --> 02:20:35,760
broadly what if we brought together

3207
02:20:39,530 --> 02:20:38,160
astronomers and earth scientists like we

3208
02:20:40,610 --> 02:20:39,540
did on this panel

3209
02:20:42,770 --> 02:20:40,620
so

3210
02:20:44,929 --> 02:20:42,780
um that those interdisciplinary research

3211
02:20:47,050 --> 02:20:44,939
teams as well as citizen scientists

3212
02:20:50,389 --> 02:20:47,060
could explore historical and current

3213
02:20:52,490 --> 02:20:50,399
NASA and partner data for events or more

3214
02:20:55,190 --> 02:20:52,500
importantly for environmental conditions

3215
02:20:57,710 --> 02:20:55,200
around the time of reported events this

3216
02:21:00,650 --> 02:20:57,720
may help in our understanding

3217
02:21:02,990 --> 02:21:00,660
and then finally given NASA's experience

3218
02:21:06,170 --> 02:21:03,000
with long-term missions long-term

3219
02:21:08,750 --> 02:21:06,180
projects and scientific Focus the agency

3220
02:21:11,170 --> 02:21:08,760
is really well equipped to handle the

3221
02:21:15,110 --> 02:21:11,180
extensive and ongoing study of phenomena

3222
02:21:17,870 --> 02:21:15,120
investigation that this likely requires

3223
02:21:20,570 --> 02:21:17,880
so hopefully that gave you some thoughts

3224
02:21:23,090 --> 02:21:20,580
as to why NASA I don't know if any of my

3225
02:21:24,310 --> 02:21:23,100
fellow panelists agree or disagree

3226
02:21:27,710 --> 02:21:24,320
discuss

3227
02:21:31,910 --> 02:21:27,720
[Laughter]

3228
02:21:35,690 --> 02:21:31,920
yes father thank you so NASA has a great

3229
02:21:38,270 --> 02:21:35,700
visibility in the community and not and

3230
02:21:40,610 --> 02:21:38,280
uaps are obviously of great interest to

3231
02:21:41,990 --> 02:21:40,620
a very diverse range of people so can

3232
02:21:46,130 --> 02:21:42,000
you speak a bit about the opportunity

3233
02:21:47,809 --> 02:21:46,140
that this provides for NASA to expand

3234
02:21:49,429 --> 02:21:47,819
um you know the knowledge of the

3235
02:21:50,809 --> 02:21:49,439
understanding of the scientific method

3236
02:21:53,690 --> 02:21:50,819
yes

3237
02:21:55,790 --> 02:21:53,700
um so it's a great question uh there are

3238
02:21:57,290 --> 02:21:55,800
multiple opportunities I think UAP

3239
02:21:59,210 --> 02:21:57,300
present

3240
02:22:02,450 --> 02:21:59,220
um the first as I mentioned I think is

3241
02:22:04,670 --> 02:22:02,460
to bring together interdisciplinary

3242
02:22:07,370 --> 02:22:04,680
research teams and scientists and

3243
02:22:09,950 --> 02:22:07,380
citizen scientists to really take a look

3244
02:22:11,270 --> 02:22:09,960
at with an objective and perhaps unique

3245
02:22:13,969 --> 02:22:11,280
eye

3246
02:22:17,270 --> 02:22:13,979
um what the NASA data archive actually

3247
02:22:18,830 --> 02:22:17,280
means blend in the Partnerships A

3248
02:22:20,690 --> 02:22:18,840
Renewed partnership that's at the

3249
02:22:22,790 --> 02:22:20,700
federal the international and the

3250
02:22:24,349 --> 02:22:22,800
private level right

3251
02:22:27,410 --> 02:22:24,359
um so I think there are any number of

3252
02:22:29,929 --> 02:22:27,420
Pathways that people could pursue that

3253
02:22:32,389 --> 02:22:29,939
could be really advantageous for helping

3254
02:22:37,429 --> 02:22:32,399
us to understand what's happening with

3255
02:22:37,439 --> 02:22:41,450
the questions

3256
02:22:46,309 --> 02:22:44,450
thank you Paula this is Jolly Wright um

3257
02:22:48,969 --> 02:22:46,319
actually my question and comment

3258
02:22:51,830 --> 02:22:48,979
actually goes to both uh you and Nadia

3259
02:22:54,710 --> 02:22:51,840
uh Dr Kirkpatrick gave us a definition

3260
02:22:56,570 --> 02:22:54,720
of anomalous that was that it was not

3261
02:22:58,010 --> 02:22:56,580
readily understandable to the operator

3262
02:23:00,530 --> 02:22:58,020
or the sensor

3263
02:23:02,630 --> 02:23:00,540
and from the NASA's perspective I'm for

3264
02:23:04,849 --> 02:23:02,640
our panel I think we have to consider a

3265
02:23:07,610 --> 02:23:04,859
broader definition if we're talking

3266
02:23:09,830 --> 02:23:07,620
about citizen science and I'm curious of

3267
02:23:11,570 --> 02:23:09,840
how we incorporate that especially

3268
02:23:14,690 --> 02:23:11,580
within the communication avenues that we

3269
02:23:18,050 --> 02:23:16,670
it's a good question

3270
02:23:19,250 --> 02:23:18,060
um so

3271
02:23:22,070 --> 02:23:19,260
um

3272
02:23:24,230 --> 02:23:22,080
not all data in an archive are user

3273
02:23:27,230 --> 02:23:24,240
friendly right right out of the the gate

3274
02:23:30,050 --> 02:23:27,240
but uh I think NASA does an excellent

3275
02:23:32,510 --> 02:23:30,060
job making things like quick look or

3276
02:23:34,429 --> 02:23:32,520
browse products available you can go on

3277
02:23:36,110 --> 02:23:34,439
the NASA website you can look at

3278
02:23:38,330 --> 02:23:36,120
different aspects of different things

3279
02:23:42,349 --> 02:23:38,340
that the agency has in its mission to

3280
02:23:44,030 --> 02:23:42,359
study and I think if nothing else people

3281
02:23:45,650 --> 02:23:44,040
have become a lot more in touch with

3282
02:23:48,889 --> 02:23:45,660
their surroundings and their environment

3283
02:23:51,349 --> 02:23:48,899
and the changes happening there and so I

3284
02:23:53,990 --> 02:23:51,359
think there's probably an opportunity uh

3285
02:23:57,050 --> 02:23:54,000
for people to maybe not become overnight

3286
02:23:59,870 --> 02:23:57,060
experts in how to process satellite data

3287
02:24:02,630 --> 02:23:59,880
and use it for basic research in a

3288
02:24:04,130 --> 02:24:02,640
complex fashion but there are ways to

3289
02:24:06,770 --> 02:24:04,140
utilize those data to look at your

3290
02:24:08,990 --> 02:24:06,780
environment if you think you've you know

3291
02:24:12,050 --> 02:24:09,000
seen something or you wish to report

3292
02:24:13,730 --> 02:24:12,060
something so communication engagement in

3293
02:24:16,790 --> 02:24:13,740
the public I think is a really important

3294
02:24:18,230 --> 02:24:16,800
part of the destigmatization for sure

3295
02:24:20,330 --> 02:24:18,240
Nadia I don't know if you have anything

3296
02:24:22,849 --> 02:24:20,340
to add

3297
02:24:24,650 --> 02:24:22,859
um I was I was struck by the phrase not

3298
02:24:26,990 --> 02:24:24,660
readily understandable I felt like that

3299
02:24:29,090 --> 02:24:27,000
was actually doing a lot of work

3300
02:24:30,830 --> 02:24:29,100
um so I think for our purposes we

3301
02:24:32,510 --> 02:24:30,840
probably want to come up with a slightly

3302
02:24:40,610 --> 02:24:32,520
more specific definition of what

3303
02:24:40,620 --> 02:24:51,170
thanks Federica

3304
02:24:56,210 --> 02:24:53,030
hello everybody my name is Federica

3305
02:24:58,070 --> 02:24:56,220
Bianco I am an astrophysicist and a data

3306
02:25:00,349 --> 02:24:58,080
scientist and I bring this perspective

3307
02:25:02,150 --> 02:25:00,359
to the panel so for the next few minutes

3308
02:25:03,290 --> 02:25:02,160
I want to emphasize some of the things

3309
02:25:05,450 --> 02:25:03,300
that my colleagues have already

3310
02:25:08,270 --> 02:25:05,460
mentioned about the data particularly

3311
02:25:10,730 --> 02:25:08,280
the status of the data that exists and

3312
02:25:13,969 --> 02:25:10,740
what the data that we should collect

3313
02:25:14,990 --> 02:25:13,979
um to really understand what maybe

3314
02:25:17,450 --> 02:25:15,000
um

3315
02:25:19,070 --> 02:25:17,460
we've already heard in a few cases by a

3316
02:25:20,870 --> 02:25:19,080
few people that NASA's role is to

3317
02:25:23,030 --> 02:25:20,880
explore the universe through the

3318
02:25:24,950 --> 02:25:23,040
scientific method the application of the

3319
02:25:27,889 --> 02:25:24,960
scientific method to Discovery requires

3320
02:25:30,410 --> 02:25:27,899
that the data meets some standards that

3321
02:25:31,670 --> 02:25:30,420
allow the data-driven approach and there

3322
02:25:33,170 --> 02:25:31,680
are many standards that have been

3323
02:25:35,570 --> 02:25:33,180
established in the scientific community

3324
02:25:37,550 --> 02:25:35,580
over the years I can mention one for

3325
02:25:39,849 --> 02:25:37,560
example it's called the fair standard

3326
02:25:41,830 --> 02:25:39,859
where Fair stands for findability

3327
02:25:45,770 --> 02:25:41,840
accessibility

3328
02:25:48,650 --> 02:25:45,780
interoperability and reusability

3329
02:25:51,410 --> 02:25:48,660
the current status of the of the data

3330
02:25:53,270 --> 02:25:51,420
about uaps does not meet these standards

3331
02:25:55,309 --> 02:25:53,280
that their collection is inconsistent

3332
02:25:58,010 --> 02:25:55,319
it's in homogeneous it's uncalibrated

3333
02:26:00,550 --> 02:25:58,020
the data are poorly documented and

3334
02:26:03,050 --> 02:26:00,560
largely incomplete

3335
02:26:05,389 --> 02:26:03,060
they're also now not systematically

3336
02:26:08,330 --> 02:26:05,399
retrievable which causes a problem in

3337
02:26:10,130 --> 02:26:08,340
automation of the analysis so what could

3338
02:26:11,809 --> 02:26:10,140
benefit from data science and machine

3339
02:26:13,849 --> 02:26:11,819
learning methods from artificial

3340
02:26:15,950 --> 02:26:13,859
intelligence that is developing at a

3341
02:26:17,929 --> 02:26:15,960
rapid Pace but machine learning and AI

3342
02:26:20,630 --> 02:26:17,939
cannot be applied until the data mean

3343
02:26:22,429 --> 02:26:20,640
the standards even to study a single

3344
02:26:24,889 --> 02:26:22,439
event currently requires a significant

3345
02:26:26,570 --> 02:26:24,899
lift in retrieving the data and the

3346
02:26:29,150 --> 02:26:26,580
metadata that may or may not be

3347
02:26:31,309 --> 02:26:29,160
available and this lift is at the moment

3348
02:26:33,410 --> 02:26:31,319
entirely person power which means that

3349
02:26:34,969 --> 02:26:33,420
it cannot be automated to apply machine

3350
02:26:37,849 --> 02:26:34,979
learning methods

3351
02:26:39,530 --> 02:26:37,859
organized repositories need to exist to

3352
02:26:41,690 --> 02:26:39,540
enable the automation of retrieval of

3353
02:26:43,849 --> 02:26:41,700
the data and the metadata and this is a

3354
02:26:46,190 --> 02:26:43,859
necessary premise to enable the

3355
02:26:48,230 --> 02:26:46,200
systematic scientific approach to the

3356
02:26:50,090 --> 02:26:48,240
study of ouaps

3357
02:26:52,610 --> 02:26:50,100
anomaly detection is a well-developed

3358
02:26:54,290 --> 02:26:52,620
although notoriously hard discipline and

3359
02:26:56,030 --> 02:26:54,300
which has seen tremendous advances

3360
02:26:57,290 --> 02:26:56,040
recently with data science and machine

3361
02:27:00,469 --> 02:26:57,300
learning

3362
02:27:02,809 --> 02:27:00,479
usually this means that acting rare and

3363
02:27:05,510 --> 02:27:02,819
unusual signals in a complex that is

3364
02:27:06,349 --> 02:27:05,520
noisy and Rich with phenomena that we

3365
02:27:08,750 --> 02:27:06,359
know

3366
02:27:10,490 --> 02:27:08,760
so there are two general approaches to

3367
02:27:11,330 --> 02:27:10,500
anomaly detection in the scientific

3368
02:27:13,429 --> 02:27:11,340
community

3369
02:27:15,770 --> 02:27:13,439
one is the following if we know the

3370
02:27:17,630 --> 02:27:15,780
signal that we expect we can model it

3371
02:27:20,389 --> 02:27:17,640
and we can simulate it and maybe inject

3372
02:27:23,750 --> 02:27:20,399
it in our data so we can develop methods

3373
02:27:25,670 --> 02:27:23,760
that are specific to finding those exact

3374
02:27:26,570 --> 02:27:25,680
signals or signals that are similar to

3375
02:27:28,370 --> 02:27:26,580
those

3376
02:27:29,990 --> 02:27:28,380
and we might be able to conceptualize

3377
02:27:32,389 --> 02:27:30,000
signals coming from physical systems

3378
02:27:34,190 --> 02:27:32,399
that responds to the laws of physics as

3379
02:27:36,290 --> 02:27:34,200
we know them but we cannot

3380
02:27:38,990 --> 02:27:36,300
comprehensively produce all possible

3381
02:27:40,429 --> 02:27:39,000
signals that could relate to or explain

3382
02:27:42,469 --> 02:27:40,439
uaps

3383
02:27:44,690 --> 02:27:42,479
so the alternative approach in detecting

3384
02:27:47,450 --> 02:27:44,700
anomalies requires a thorough and deep

3385
02:27:50,870 --> 02:27:47,460
understanding of what is normal and

3386
02:27:52,550 --> 02:27:50,880
usual to tease out what is unusual and

3387
02:27:54,950 --> 02:27:52,560
unlike the rest

3388
02:27:56,870 --> 02:27:54,960
these methods typically found in the

3389
02:27:58,250 --> 02:27:56,880
realm of what we call unsupervised

3390
02:27:59,510 --> 02:27:58,260
machine learning

3391
02:28:02,150 --> 02:27:59,520
uh

3392
02:28:04,250 --> 02:28:02,160
what is usual maybe the balloons the

3393
02:28:06,710 --> 02:28:04,260
aircrafts and wealth of natural

3394
02:28:09,170 --> 02:28:06,720
phenomena that we have heard of and what

3395
02:28:11,690 --> 02:28:09,180
is unusual what is an anomaly means

3396
02:28:13,670 --> 02:28:11,700
anything in there is not consistent with

3397
02:28:15,349 --> 02:28:13,680
the way in which those things look in

3398
02:28:17,630 --> 02:28:15,359
our data

3399
02:28:19,730 --> 02:28:17,640
once the animal signal is detected it

3400
02:28:22,070 --> 02:28:19,740
can be studied in more deaths either

3401
02:28:24,469 --> 02:28:22,080
through the discovery data itself but

3402
02:28:26,330 --> 02:28:24,479
that may not be sufficient so then we

3403
02:28:29,210 --> 02:28:26,340
may need to collect additional data for

3404
02:28:31,010 --> 02:28:29,220
to study these on these anomalies and

3405
02:28:33,889 --> 02:28:31,020
this is something that in astrophysics

3406
02:28:36,469 --> 02:28:33,899
we typically refer to as follow-up data

3407
02:28:38,570 --> 02:28:36,479
this can be very hard especially if the

3408
02:28:40,670 --> 02:28:38,580
phenomena that are anomals are also

3409
02:28:43,490 --> 02:28:40,680
ephemeral in time so you have to

3410
02:28:45,710 --> 02:28:43,500
promptly respond to the detection and

3411
02:28:47,809 --> 02:28:45,720
set up follow-up observations it's an

3412
02:28:49,490 --> 02:28:47,819
extremely hard game but it's something

3413
02:28:51,830 --> 02:28:49,500
that is seeing a large developing in

3414
02:28:53,929 --> 02:28:51,840
astrophysics in recent years with the

3415
02:28:55,550 --> 02:28:53,939
study of anomalous detections in the

3416
02:28:57,950 --> 02:28:55,560
universe

3417
02:28:59,270 --> 02:28:57,960
this approach relies entirely on a

3418
02:29:01,309 --> 02:28:59,280
comprehensive and systematic

3419
02:29:03,650 --> 02:29:01,319
organization of the data which is

3420
02:29:06,770 --> 02:29:03,660
Paramount and on a deep understanding of

3421
02:29:08,150 --> 02:29:06,780
all the data that is actually usual and

3422
02:29:10,250 --> 02:29:08,160
known

3423
02:29:11,809 --> 02:29:10,260
the data that women want to collect

3424
02:29:14,450 --> 02:29:11,819
ideally will be collected in a

3425
02:29:17,690 --> 02:29:14,460
multi-sensor and multi-platform and

3426
02:29:19,570 --> 02:29:17,700
multi-site manner eyewitnesses reports I

3427
02:29:22,670 --> 02:29:19,580
want to elevate what Dr Drake said

3428
02:29:24,349 --> 02:29:22,680
cannot a certain the nature of uaps

3429
02:29:25,670 --> 02:29:24,359
however they should be considered

3430
02:29:27,830 --> 02:29:25,680
because they may contain important

3431
02:29:30,830 --> 02:29:27,840
information for example persistent

3432
02:29:33,650 --> 02:29:30,840
siting locations or seasonality but they

3433
02:29:36,950 --> 02:29:33,660
only really work if joined with

3434
02:29:38,389 --> 02:29:36,960
quantitative data collected by sensors

3435
02:29:39,889 --> 02:29:38,399
as well as biophysical and

3436
02:29:41,210 --> 02:29:39,899
psychophysical assessments of the

3437
02:29:43,730 --> 02:29:41,220
witness and the impact that the

3438
02:29:47,150 --> 02:29:43,740
experience has on them to really reveal

3439
02:29:47,870 --> 02:29:47,160
the nature of uaps

3440
02:29:49,730 --> 02:29:47,880
um

3441
02:29:52,250 --> 02:29:49,740
you've heard it from them from my

3442
02:29:53,990 --> 02:29:52,260
colleagues a number of times the data

3443
02:29:56,929 --> 02:29:54,000
needs to be collected by sensors that

3444
02:29:58,730 --> 02:29:56,939
need to be calibrated or calibratable so

3445
02:30:01,490 --> 02:29:58,740
we need to collect not only the data

3446
02:30:04,429 --> 02:30:01,500
images sound spectral characterization

3447
02:30:06,710 --> 02:30:04,439
of what we see but metadata the sensor

3448
02:30:08,690 --> 02:30:06,720
type the brand the brand of the sensor

3449
02:30:10,969 --> 02:30:08,700
the noise characteristics time of the

3450
02:30:12,849 --> 02:30:10,979
acquisition instrument sensitivity as

3451
02:30:15,469 --> 02:30:12,859
well as information about the

3452
02:30:18,290 --> 02:30:15,479
circumstances of the data collection for

3453
02:30:20,330 --> 02:30:18,300
example temperature or the location or

3454
02:30:22,130 --> 02:30:20,340
the conditions in which the sensor is at

3455
02:30:23,570 --> 02:30:22,140
the time of collecting the data

3456
02:30:25,790 --> 02:30:23,580
the data should be collected

3457
02:30:27,950 --> 02:30:25,800
simultaneously by different platforms

3458
02:30:31,070 --> 02:30:27,960
ideally ideally in different locations

3459
02:30:32,570 --> 02:30:31,080
in a multi-sensor system so some of the

3460
02:30:34,490 --> 02:30:32,580
data that we may want to collect are

3461
02:30:37,190 --> 02:30:34,500
images but also temperature sound

3462
02:30:40,190 --> 02:30:37,200
recording spectral data emissivity that

3463
02:30:42,490 --> 02:30:40,200
tells you the color in a very fine grid

3464
02:30:44,990 --> 02:30:42,500
um as well as other as well as

3465
02:30:47,389 --> 02:30:45,000
monitoring the motion of objects which

3466
02:30:49,550 --> 02:30:47,399
has been very important to identify what

3467
02:30:51,050 --> 02:30:49,560
we have seen as uaps that have been

3468
02:30:53,450 --> 02:30:51,060
reported

3469
02:30:54,889 --> 02:30:53,460
much of this certainly can be achieved

3470
02:30:58,190 --> 02:30:54,899
with professional grade infrastructure

3471
02:31:00,950 --> 02:30:58,200
and both new and existing infrastructure

3472
02:31:02,990 --> 02:31:00,960
to do that such as astrophysical and

3473
02:31:05,150 --> 02:31:03,000
geographical observatories both on the

3474
02:31:06,950 --> 02:31:05,160
ground and satellites some Modern

3475
02:31:08,690 --> 02:31:06,960
observatories in particular are designed

3476
02:31:11,030 --> 02:31:08,700
for the deflection of time anomalies

3477
02:31:12,830 --> 02:31:11,040
specifically as well as for the

3478
02:31:15,830 --> 02:31:12,840
detection of objects that move rapidly

3479
02:31:18,770 --> 02:31:15,840
in space near Earth objects asteroids

3480
02:31:20,870 --> 02:31:18,780
meteors Etc so those could be leveraged

3481
02:31:23,450 --> 02:31:20,880
for the study of uaps

3482
02:31:25,309 --> 02:31:23,460
there is also some effort in ongoing in

3483
02:31:27,230 --> 02:31:25,319
the developing of facilities that are

3484
02:31:30,110 --> 02:31:27,240
specifically to detect designed to

3485
02:31:31,610 --> 02:31:30,120
detect uaps and many of those comply

3486
02:31:33,110 --> 02:31:31,620
with the characteristics that I just

3487
02:31:35,090 --> 02:31:33,120
described

3488
02:31:37,790 --> 02:31:35,100
this level of information though can

3489
02:31:40,010 --> 02:31:37,800
also be obtained by the public we could

3490
02:31:43,370 --> 02:31:40,020
crowdsource the data collection if a

3491
02:31:45,230 --> 02:31:43,380
platform to crowdsource exists that

3492
02:31:47,270 --> 02:31:45,240
supports the collection of data and

3493
02:31:49,790 --> 02:31:47,280
metadata and the transmission of data

3494
02:31:51,469 --> 02:31:49,800
and metadata and we think that NASA

3495
02:31:54,130 --> 02:31:51,479
might be able to play an important role

3496
02:31:58,910 --> 02:31:54,140
in the development of this platform

3497
02:32:00,469 --> 02:31:58,920
to Echo Dr bontempi said NASA has a

3498
02:32:02,690 --> 02:32:00,479
wealth of experience in coordinating

3499
02:32:04,670 --> 02:32:02,700
scientific studies efforts across

3500
02:32:06,410 --> 02:32:04,680
discipline and domains serving as a

3501
02:32:08,630 --> 02:32:06,420
bridge between communities in the

3502
02:32:11,150 --> 02:32:08,640
interdisciplinary studies and studies

3503
02:32:13,969 --> 02:32:11,160
across different countries

3504
02:32:16,070 --> 02:32:13,979
all of these can be supported all of

3505
02:32:18,590 --> 02:32:16,080
these can be leveraged to support the

3506
02:32:20,870 --> 02:32:18,600
work of the other agencies in the

3507
02:32:25,010 --> 02:32:20,880
identification and explaining explaining

3508
02:32:27,469 --> 02:32:25,020
uaps NASA also has a really important

3509
02:32:29,750 --> 02:32:27,479
experience in data curation we have

3510
02:32:31,969 --> 02:32:29,760
heard about the sophistication of the

3511
02:32:34,490 --> 02:32:31,979
analysis of the data that NASA provides

3512
02:32:37,150 --> 02:32:34,500
of the sophistication of the calibration

3513
02:32:39,830 --> 02:32:37,160
the data that NASA shares

3514
02:32:43,670 --> 02:32:39,840
arrives to we have heard about the open

3515
02:32:45,590 --> 02:32:43,680
data policy that NASA data goes under

3516
02:32:47,990 --> 02:32:45,600
furthermore NASA has recently

3517
02:32:50,809 --> 02:32:48,000
spearheaded an effort to review NASA and

3518
02:32:53,570 --> 02:32:50,819
nazam partner archival data to prepare

3519
02:32:55,070 --> 02:32:53,580
them for machine learning and AI so that

3520
02:32:58,190 --> 02:32:55,080
data can be served to the community

3521
02:33:00,230 --> 02:32:58,200
directly and ready to apply AI methods

3522
02:33:02,570 --> 02:33:00,240
on it this is an important experience

3523
02:33:05,330 --> 02:33:02,580
that could be leveraged in the study of

3524
02:33:08,510 --> 02:33:05,340
uaps however we do want to emphasize

3525
02:33:11,210 --> 02:33:08,520
that the current status of the UAP data

3526
02:33:13,610 --> 02:33:11,220
will make this left really hard compared

3527
02:33:15,290 --> 02:33:13,620
to even what is being done by NASA for

3528
02:33:17,750 --> 02:33:15,300
astrophysical data

3529
02:33:19,309 --> 02:33:17,760
and finally I wanted to emphasize what

3530
02:33:22,250 --> 02:33:19,319
my colleague said NASA has a great

3531
02:33:25,010 --> 02:33:22,260
visibility uaps have a great power of

3532
02:33:27,590 --> 02:33:25,020
great public interest and this could be

3533
02:33:29,570 --> 02:33:27,600
an opportunity to really increase the

3534
02:33:31,790 --> 02:33:29,580
reach of science help people understand

3535
02:33:33,889 --> 02:33:31,800
the scientific process and maybe

3536
02:33:36,410 --> 02:33:33,899
diversify the scientific Community by

3537
02:33:38,450 --> 02:33:36,420
attracting new Talent into the

3538
02:33:40,429 --> 02:33:38,460
scientific Community due to the

3539
02:33:44,990 --> 02:33:40,439
visibility of the problem

3540
02:33:49,150 --> 02:33:45,000
and I think that's all of my remarks

3541
02:33:54,710 --> 02:33:52,130
so uh on the whole crowdsourcing front

3542
02:33:57,410 --> 02:33:54,720
and getting uh reports from citizen

3543
02:33:59,630 --> 02:33:57,420
scientists uh what do you think along

3544
02:34:02,630 --> 02:33:59,640
those lines is it uh providing a set of

3545
02:34:05,450 --> 02:34:02,640
guidelines for how you report is it open

3546
02:34:07,690 --> 02:34:05,460
sourcing a set of applications for cell

3547
02:34:10,910 --> 02:34:07,700
phones to be able to pull in a lot of

3548
02:34:12,710 --> 02:34:10,920
metadata uh what does that look like

3549
02:34:15,110 --> 02:34:12,720
yeah so

3550
02:34:19,370 --> 02:34:15,120
um I think guidance wouldn't just a set

3551
02:34:21,170 --> 02:34:19,380
of guidance of best practices Etc would

3552
02:34:24,110 --> 02:34:21,180
just now be sufficient I think what

3553
02:34:25,849 --> 02:34:24,120
needs to be provided is a platform you

3554
02:34:27,650 --> 02:34:25,859
mentioned cell phones cell phones have

3555
02:34:29,809 --> 02:34:27,660
been used for

3556
02:34:33,349 --> 02:34:29,819
um crowdsourcing the study and detection

3557
02:34:35,389 --> 02:34:33,359
of a number of things in astrophysics in

3558
02:34:38,510 --> 02:34:35,399
space science so that can definitely be

3559
02:34:41,690 --> 02:34:38,520
done the issue I think is going to be to

3560
02:34:43,969 --> 02:34:41,700
make sure that this platform is

3561
02:34:46,370 --> 02:34:43,979
um that this platform reaches a large

3562
02:34:48,710 --> 02:34:46,380
enough Community to really have a crowd

3563
02:34:50,630 --> 02:34:48,720
to Source the problem and coordination

3564
02:34:53,030 --> 02:34:50,640
something that this could achieve for

3565
02:34:54,950 --> 02:34:53,040
example is the follow-up that I

3566
02:34:57,349 --> 02:34:54,960
mentioned earlier right so we need this

3567
02:34:59,870 --> 02:34:57,359
community that would use

3568
02:35:02,570 --> 02:34:59,880
um the crowdsourcing facilities to be

3569
02:35:05,630 --> 02:35:02,580
connected so that if something is cited

3570
02:35:08,210 --> 02:35:05,640
by one person that message can go across

3571
02:35:09,530 --> 02:35:08,220
and a broader Community can point their

3572
02:35:10,730 --> 02:35:09,540
sensors

3573
02:35:14,389 --> 02:35:10,740
um to the problem

3574
02:35:16,070 --> 02:35:14,399
to the sighting and the data has to be

3575
02:35:17,270 --> 02:35:16,080
transmitted to that has to be

3576
02:35:20,710 --> 02:35:17,280
transmitted to a place that can

3577
02:35:22,969 --> 02:35:20,720
centralize it and curate it

3578
02:35:24,469 --> 02:35:22,979
yeah please feel free to say this is a

3579
02:35:26,570 --> 02:35:24,479
bad idea but if you thought about

3580
02:35:27,889 --> 02:35:26,580
synthetic data oh so as you were talking

3581
02:35:30,349 --> 02:35:27,899
I was thinking you know given the fact

3582
02:35:32,870 --> 02:35:30,359
we don't have enough quality data to

3583
02:35:34,730 --> 02:35:32,880
train a net a neural net if we're to

3584
02:35:36,290 --> 02:35:34,740
generate synthetic data based on the

3585
02:35:38,150 --> 02:35:36,300
information we do have and then filling

3586
02:35:40,190 --> 02:35:38,160
out the other characteristics as we

3587
02:35:43,190 --> 02:35:40,200
might guess because that that help us

3588
02:35:45,170 --> 02:35:43,200
train something to iterate an AI to be

3589
02:35:47,690 --> 02:35:45,180
to find other correlations within data

3590
02:35:50,210 --> 02:35:47,700
as we get it so we do it all the time in

3591
02:35:52,849 --> 02:35:50,220
data science right we do generate data

3592
02:35:54,710 --> 02:35:52,859
sets where the data sets our sparse or

3593
02:35:56,690 --> 02:35:54,720
scars and we cannot train machine

3594
02:35:59,090 --> 02:35:56,700
learning models it's a risky business

3595
02:36:01,969 --> 02:35:59,100
because in the data that we generate we

3596
02:36:03,590 --> 02:36:01,979
embed the bias that we have so we are

3597
02:36:05,990 --> 02:36:03,600
thinking about the data the way in which

3598
02:36:07,429 --> 02:36:06,000
we think the data looks and the way in

3599
02:36:09,530 --> 02:36:07,439
which the things that they anomalies

3600
02:36:12,110 --> 02:36:09,540
look so particularly in anomaly

3601
02:36:13,490 --> 02:36:12,120
detection it is a very difficult thing

3602
02:36:15,349 --> 02:36:13,500
to do

3603
02:36:18,590 --> 02:36:15,359
um to try to make sure that you don't

3604
02:36:20,210 --> 02:36:18,600
buy a Seer models to what you know I

3605
02:36:22,190 --> 02:36:20,220
want to come back to this topic of

3606
02:36:23,990 --> 02:36:22,200
anomaly discussion in our general

3607
02:36:26,330 --> 02:36:24,000
discussion we're sort of starting to run

3608
02:36:28,670 --> 02:36:26,340
a little late so want to cut off

3609
02:36:31,969 --> 02:36:28,680
questions now but we do have a little

3610
02:36:33,950 --> 02:36:31,979
time later at the end so don't forget

3611
02:36:35,750 --> 02:36:33,960
don't forget your questions bring them

3612
02:36:37,610 --> 02:36:35,760
up again in discussion and we'll we'll

3613
02:36:46,910 --> 02:36:37,620
talk more more later

3614
02:36:50,389 --> 02:36:48,710
all right good afternoon

3615
02:36:52,670 --> 02:36:50,399
my name is David grinspoon I'm a

3616
02:36:55,250 --> 02:36:52,680
planetary scientist and astrobiologist

3617
02:36:56,870 --> 02:36:55,260
and I'm going to talk for uh just a

3618
02:36:59,750 --> 02:36:56,880
couple of minutes about

3619
02:37:01,670 --> 02:36:59,760
um how observations beyond Earth are

3620
02:37:05,330 --> 02:37:01,680
relevant to

3621
02:37:06,770 --> 02:37:05,340
um our uh study of uaps

3622
02:37:09,710 --> 02:37:06,780
um

3623
02:37:11,809 --> 02:37:09,720
many of NASA's missions are at least in

3624
02:37:15,429 --> 02:37:11,819
part focused on answering the question

3625
02:37:17,990 --> 02:37:15,439
of whether life exists beyond Earth

3626
02:37:20,690 --> 02:37:18,000
astrobiology is the study of the origin

3627
02:37:22,849 --> 02:37:20,700
Evolution distribution and future of

3628
02:37:25,490 --> 02:37:22,859
life in the universe

3629
02:37:28,309 --> 02:37:25,500
as part of this we consider how to

3630
02:37:30,349 --> 02:37:28,319
search for biosignatures observations we

3631
02:37:33,770 --> 02:37:30,359
can make of other planets which may

3632
02:37:36,650 --> 02:37:33,780
might betray the presence of life so we

3633
02:37:39,050 --> 02:37:36,660
look for things like anomalous gases in

3634
02:37:42,110 --> 02:37:39,060
the atmospheres of planets and other

3635
02:37:44,630 --> 02:37:42,120
anomalies which may possibly reveal the

3636
02:37:46,730 --> 02:37:44,640
presence of life when we discover such

3637
02:37:49,250 --> 02:37:46,740
an anomaly we don't

3638
02:37:51,830 --> 02:37:49,260
conclude that we've discovered life we

3639
02:37:54,889 --> 02:37:51,840
seek more data to understand what we're

3640
02:37:56,330 --> 02:37:54,899
seeing and often this leads to other new

3641
02:37:58,370 --> 02:37:56,340
discoveries

3642
02:38:01,190 --> 02:37:58,380
similarly we can talk about looking for

3643
02:38:02,990 --> 02:38:01,200
techno signatures observations we can

3644
02:38:06,170 --> 02:38:03,000
make which might reveal the presence of

3645
02:38:08,270 --> 02:38:06,180
technological activity somewhere else

3646
02:38:10,730 --> 02:38:08,280
NASA is also supporting some research

3647
02:38:13,790 --> 02:38:10,740
studying techno signatures

3648
02:38:15,590 --> 02:38:13,800
while there is a present no evidence

3649
02:38:18,830 --> 02:38:15,600
we're aware of suggesting an

3650
02:38:20,809 --> 02:38:18,840
extraterrestrial source for uaps these

3651
02:38:23,330 --> 02:38:20,819
existing NASA programs are relevant to

3652
02:38:24,889 --> 02:38:23,340
the question of uaps in at least two

3653
02:38:26,210 --> 02:38:24,899
ways

3654
02:38:29,450 --> 02:38:26,220
first

3655
02:38:30,950 --> 02:38:29,460
researchers in astrobiology and seti the

3656
02:38:33,230 --> 02:38:30,960
search for extraterrestrial intelligence

3657
02:38:35,750 --> 02:38:33,240
have focused for many years on

3658
02:38:38,809 --> 02:38:35,760
techniques and methods for identifying

3659
02:38:40,849 --> 02:38:38,819
anomalous signatures and determining if

3660
02:38:43,250 --> 02:38:40,859
they have mundane natural explanations

3661
02:38:44,990 --> 02:38:43,260
as opposed to revealing unknown

3662
02:38:46,610 --> 02:38:45,000
biological or even technological

3663
02:38:48,650 --> 02:38:46,620
activity

3664
02:38:50,570 --> 02:38:48,660
the City Community has expertise and

3665
02:38:53,150 --> 02:38:50,580
methodologies for determining whether a

3666
02:38:55,550 --> 02:38:53,160
potential techno signature is in fact a

3667
02:38:57,710 --> 02:38:55,560
natural phenomenon or misinterpreted

3668
02:38:59,570 --> 02:38:57,720
terrestrial technology

3669
02:39:02,929 --> 02:38:59,580
when a possible techno signature is

3670
02:39:05,870 --> 02:39:02,939
observed we asked is it a real signal

3671
02:39:09,710 --> 02:39:05,880
is it a known or unknown natural

3672
02:39:13,730 --> 02:39:09,720
phenomena must it be technological

3673
02:39:15,950 --> 02:39:13,740
uh is it known terrestrial technology

3674
02:39:17,870 --> 02:39:15,960
so these scientific communities have

3675
02:39:20,150 --> 02:39:17,880
relevant experience in determining and

3676
02:39:22,610 --> 02:39:20,160
communicating about whether observations

3677
02:39:25,490 --> 02:39:22,620
which first appeared to reveal

3678
02:39:29,389 --> 02:39:25,500
extraordinary evidence actually justify

3679
02:39:33,170 --> 02:39:31,010
second

3680
02:39:35,750 --> 02:39:33,180
if we do acknowledge an extraterrestrial

3681
02:39:38,990 --> 02:39:35,760
Source however unlikely as one

3682
02:39:40,790 --> 02:39:39,000
possibility for uaps then these objects

3683
02:39:43,730 --> 02:39:40,800
must have traveled through the solar

3684
02:39:51,469 --> 02:39:47,330
Within the scientific Community there's

3685
02:39:53,150 --> 02:39:51,479
a widespread but by no means Universal

3686
02:39:55,309 --> 02:39:53,160
belief that there are extraterrestrial

3687
02:39:57,590 --> 02:39:55,319
civilizations and we have a

3688
02:39:59,030 --> 02:39:57,600
well-developed rationale there's a lot

3689
02:40:02,090 --> 02:39:59,040
of literature for discussing this which

3690
02:40:03,650 --> 02:40:02,100
I won't go into now uh in the interest

3691
02:40:05,809 --> 02:40:03,660
of brevity but it has to do with the

3692
02:40:08,270 --> 02:40:05,819
vast numbers of exoplanets and the time

3693
02:40:10,429 --> 02:40:08,280
scales of evolution and the possibility

3694
02:40:12,290 --> 02:40:10,439
of convergent evolution on different

3695
02:40:15,070 --> 02:40:12,300
planets leading to somewhat similar

3696
02:40:18,889 --> 02:40:15,080
outcomes it's a fascinating subject but

3697
02:40:21,050 --> 02:40:18,899
uh the the relevant Point here is that

3698
02:40:22,870 --> 02:40:21,060
the same rationale which support

3699
02:40:25,490 --> 02:40:22,880
supports the idea the extra

3700
02:40:28,790 --> 02:40:25,500
extraterrestrial civilizations may exist

3701
02:40:30,469 --> 02:40:28,800
and may be detectable also supports the

3702
02:40:33,110 --> 02:40:30,479
idea that finding extraterrestrial

3703
02:40:34,910 --> 02:40:33,120
artifacts in our own solar system is at

3704
02:40:37,309 --> 02:40:34,920
least plausible

3705
02:40:39,050 --> 02:40:37,319
NASA is the lead Agency for solar system

3706
02:40:41,270 --> 02:40:39,060
exploration

3707
02:40:42,889 --> 02:40:41,280
it already has an active program of

3708
02:40:45,230 --> 02:40:42,899
detecting objects in our Solar

3709
02:40:47,750 --> 02:40:45,240
neighborhood using both ground-based and

3710
02:40:49,370 --> 02:40:47,760
space-based facilities and it could

3711
02:40:51,530 --> 02:40:49,380
leverage those capabilities to search

3712
02:40:53,150 --> 02:40:51,540
for objects in space with anomalous

3713
02:40:55,370 --> 02:40:53,160
motion

3714
02:40:58,790 --> 02:40:55,380
anomalous trajectories

3715
02:41:01,550 --> 02:40:58,800
unusual light curves anomalous spectral

3716
02:41:03,889 --> 02:41:01,560
signatures or other characteristics

3717
02:41:06,710 --> 02:41:03,899
uh most of the solar system has not been

3718
02:41:09,710 --> 02:41:06,720
searched for artifacts or anomalies and

3719
02:41:12,110 --> 02:41:09,720
these modest data analysis efforts could

3720
02:41:14,389 --> 02:41:12,120
potentially be applied to existing and

3721
02:41:17,510 --> 02:41:14,399
planned planetary missions

3722
02:41:19,250 --> 02:41:17,520
the Galaxy does not stop at the edge of

3723
02:41:22,309 --> 02:41:19,260
the solar system and the solar system

3724
02:41:24,469 --> 02:41:22,319
does not stop at the top of the Earth's

3725
02:41:28,250 --> 02:41:24,479
atmosphere it's all a Continuum of

3726
02:41:30,710 --> 02:41:28,260
possibilities worthy of Investigation

3727
02:41:33,590 --> 02:41:30,720
if NASA applies the same rigorous

3728
02:41:35,690 --> 02:41:33,600
methodology toward uaps that it applies

3729
02:41:38,870 --> 02:41:35,700
to the study of possible life elsewhere

3730
02:41:40,670 --> 02:41:38,880
then we stand to learn something new and

3731
02:41:43,670 --> 02:41:40,680
interesting whatever the ultimate

3732
02:41:46,490 --> 02:41:43,680
explanation is of those phenomena

3733
02:41:49,309 --> 02:41:46,500
and that's all I wanted to say right now

3734
02:41:54,650 --> 02:41:49,319
now we have time for uh one or two

3735
02:41:57,830 --> 02:41:55,910
yeah

3736
02:41:59,809 --> 02:41:57,840
um thank you for that you know it struck

3737
02:42:03,710 --> 02:41:59,819
me while you were speaking

3738
02:42:05,870 --> 02:42:03,720
um about bio signatures that we do a lot

3739
02:42:07,809 --> 02:42:05,880
of that type of analysis right and our

3740
02:42:10,730 --> 02:42:07,819
home planet in in different capacities

3741
02:42:12,410 --> 02:42:10,740
and so it's more of a comment but I

3742
02:42:14,870 --> 02:42:12,420
wondered your thoughts on you know

3743
02:42:17,570 --> 02:42:14,880
bringing together those communities that

3744
02:42:20,349 --> 02:42:17,580
might not work together and whether that

3745
02:42:23,870 --> 02:42:20,359
would Aid in you know not only

3746
02:42:26,150 --> 02:42:23,880
establishing what's normal but you know

3747
02:42:28,550 --> 02:42:26,160
enabling the detection or maybe the

3748
02:42:31,670 --> 02:42:28,560
understanding explanation of a UAP if

3749
02:42:32,990 --> 02:42:31,680
reported absolutely I mean uh you know

3750
02:42:35,270 --> 02:42:33,000
the focus of my talk was was

3751
02:42:37,849 --> 02:42:35,280
observations elsewhere but in fact most

3752
02:42:39,710 --> 02:42:37,859
of what the field of astrobiology has to

3753
02:42:41,330 --> 02:42:39,720
study is here on Earth because after all

3754
02:42:42,830 --> 02:42:41,340
it's our one example of an inhabited

3755
02:42:46,070 --> 02:42:42,840
planet and it's a little bit easier to

3756
02:42:48,650 --> 02:42:46,080
get to to make observations so yes uh

3757
02:42:51,469 --> 02:42:48,660
any any insights do you have uh in that

3758
02:42:52,610 --> 02:42:51,479
area or any any suggestions for uh for

3759
02:42:59,809 --> 02:42:52,620
uh collaboration between those

3760
02:43:04,309 --> 02:43:02,330
so of course NASA hasn't been

3761
02:43:05,990 --> 02:43:04,319
researching the Techno signature field

3762
02:43:08,330 --> 02:43:06,000
for very long and there's been a stigma

3763
02:43:11,090 --> 02:43:08,340
with techno signatures for many decades

3764
02:43:13,790 --> 02:43:11,100
are there any Lessons Learned

3765
02:43:16,429 --> 02:43:13,800
we can impose from the Techno signature

3766
02:43:19,490 --> 02:43:16,439
in the study Community to the UAP and

3767
02:43:20,870 --> 02:43:19,500
solar system studies

3768
02:43:22,370 --> 02:43:20,880
so really

3769
02:43:24,830 --> 02:43:22,380
good question

3770
02:43:27,290 --> 02:43:24,840
um I guess the the immediate thought it

3771
02:43:29,330 --> 02:43:27,300
Sparks in me is that um

3772
02:43:33,349 --> 02:43:29,340
yeah techno signatures

3773
02:43:35,450 --> 02:43:33,359
were kind of treated uh at kept at arm's

3774
02:43:37,130 --> 02:43:35,460
length for a long time by NASA because

3775
02:43:40,250 --> 02:43:37,140
of stigma

3776
02:43:41,990 --> 02:43:40,260
um and ultimately uh

3777
02:43:44,510 --> 02:43:42,000
can't be kept

3778
02:43:46,610 --> 02:43:44,520
away forever if you're if you are an

3779
02:43:47,929 --> 02:43:46,620
agency curiosity driven trying to

3780
02:43:49,849 --> 02:43:47,939
understand the whole universe you have

3781
02:43:51,590 --> 02:43:49,859
to move Beyond stigmas and just try to

3782
02:43:53,690 --> 02:43:51,600
honestly look at whatever evidence there

3783
02:43:58,849 --> 02:43:53,700
is and so I think in that broad sense

3784
02:44:03,710 --> 02:44:01,490
um so someone who has been working in

3785
02:44:07,370 --> 02:44:03,720
astrobiology and data Sciences for some

3786
02:44:10,010 --> 02:44:07,380
time now it strikes me when both Dr

3787
02:44:11,389 --> 02:44:10,020
Bianco and you talked that the

3788
02:44:13,610 --> 02:44:11,399
differences that seem to me between

3789
02:44:17,450 --> 02:44:13,620
biosignatures and techno signatures

3790
02:44:19,130 --> 02:44:17,460
fields and UAP field again relies on the

3791
02:44:22,070 --> 02:44:19,140
data so biosignatures and techno

3792
02:44:24,349 --> 02:44:22,080
signatures they have are very well

3793
02:44:26,830 --> 02:44:24,359
standardized data sets they have collect

3794
02:44:29,389 --> 02:44:26,840
been collecting data sets for some time

3795
02:44:31,130 --> 02:44:29,399
and they are able to apply machine

3796
02:44:33,590 --> 02:44:31,140
learning artificial intelligence

3797
02:44:36,830 --> 02:44:33,600
algorithms while it's a totally

3798
02:44:38,990 --> 02:44:36,840
different question with uaps in how we

3799
02:44:43,610 --> 02:44:39,000
can apply artificial intelligence here

3800
02:44:47,510 --> 02:44:43,620
so again just like Dr how she said it's

3801
02:44:51,530 --> 02:44:47,520
about data standardization so I hope

3802
02:44:53,090 --> 02:44:51,540
that the UAP field will learn how to

3803
02:44:54,889 --> 02:44:53,100
work with the data from the

3804
02:44:57,110 --> 02:44:54,899
biosignatures and techno signatures

3805
02:44:58,910 --> 02:44:57,120
Fields yeah that's a good point the one

3806
02:45:00,830 --> 02:44:58,920
the one uh point I pushed back on a

3807
02:45:03,230 --> 02:45:00,840
little bit is whether techno signatures

3808
02:45:06,110 --> 02:45:03,240
has been has a lot of data in that sense

3809
02:45:09,110 --> 02:45:06,120
the the one part of techno signatures

3810
02:45:10,670 --> 02:45:09,120
which is looking for signals from radio

3811
02:45:12,230 --> 02:45:10,680
and Optical and that sort of thing

3812
02:45:13,610 --> 02:45:12,240
that's been you know associated with

3813
02:45:15,050 --> 02:45:13,620
study for a long time you're right

3814
02:45:17,210 --> 02:45:15,060
there's a lot of data there that we've

3815
02:45:18,830 --> 02:45:17,220
been collecting but the term techno

3816
02:45:21,889 --> 02:45:18,840
signature is this sort of newly being

3817
02:45:23,929 --> 02:45:21,899
adopted in it uh in a way it reminds me

3818
02:45:25,910 --> 02:45:23,939
of the distinction we heard um from the

3819
02:45:28,730 --> 02:45:25,920
FAA about a cooperative and you know

3820
02:45:30,230 --> 02:45:28,740
non-cooperative uh that with techno

3821
02:45:32,510 --> 02:45:30,240
signatures we're looking

3822
02:45:33,889 --> 02:45:32,520
um there's more of an emphasis on

3823
02:45:35,450 --> 02:45:33,899
finding

3824
02:45:37,790 --> 02:45:35,460
um technology that is not necessarily

3825
02:45:40,190 --> 02:45:37,800
intended to Signal us but just sort of

3826
02:45:41,929 --> 02:45:40,200
uh doing what technology does and

3827
02:45:43,910 --> 02:45:41,939
finding ways to you know so it's not

3828
02:45:45,830 --> 02:45:43,920
looking for signals as much and in that

3829
02:45:47,929 --> 02:45:45,840
domain we have not necessarily been

3830
02:45:49,790 --> 02:45:47,939
collecting information for that long but

3831
02:45:51,590 --> 02:45:49,800
but your point is well taken that there

3832
02:45:53,750 --> 02:45:51,600
are lessons learned from uh certainly

3833
02:45:55,490 --> 02:45:53,760
the astrobiology and the the sort of

3834
02:45:57,650 --> 02:45:55,500
classical seti field where we've had a

3835
02:46:00,230 --> 02:45:57,660
lot of data and we could look at how

3836
02:46:02,870 --> 02:46:00,240
that is analyzed and tried collect the

3837
02:46:05,870 --> 02:46:02,880
data for uaps that will be amenable to

3838
02:46:17,809 --> 02:46:05,880
that same sort of analysis

3839
02:46:22,190 --> 02:46:20,389
hello everybody I'm Carlin toner a

3840
02:46:24,230 --> 02:46:22,200
monerospace engineer

3841
02:46:26,090 --> 02:46:24,240
you know it really struck me when Dr

3842
02:46:28,910 --> 02:46:26,100
Drake opened up this afternoon and

3843
02:46:31,010 --> 02:46:28,920
talked about this really small needle in

3844
02:46:33,889 --> 02:46:31,020
a really big Haystack that we're looking

3845
02:46:36,410 --> 02:46:33,899
for and I'm going to talk to you about

3846
02:46:38,990 --> 02:46:36,420
reporting a theme that we've heard a lot

3847
02:46:41,090 --> 02:46:39,000
how can we make that Haystack smaller

3848
02:46:43,910 --> 02:46:41,100
and that needle bigger

3849
02:46:46,370 --> 02:46:43,920
so reporting of uip events has received

3850
02:46:48,410 --> 02:46:46,380
a lot of attention recently but I think

3851
02:46:50,330 --> 02:46:48,420
that there are still barriers for people

3852
02:46:52,969 --> 02:46:50,340
to report

3853
02:46:55,490 --> 02:46:52,979
how or where should they report will

3854
02:46:58,250 --> 02:46:55,500
someone take action on their report

3855
02:47:00,410 --> 02:46:58,260
will the reporter be believed or will

3856
02:47:03,110 --> 02:47:00,420
they be shamed

3857
02:47:05,510 --> 02:47:03,120
we've heard over the course of our fact

3858
02:47:08,809 --> 02:47:05,520
finding that many scientists and

3859
02:47:11,450 --> 02:47:08,819
aviators consider the study of uaps to

3860
02:47:13,370 --> 02:47:11,460
be Fringe at best

3861
02:47:15,650 --> 02:47:13,380
so this suggests there's a significant

3862
02:47:18,170 --> 02:47:15,660
negative stigma associated with

3863
02:47:20,170 --> 02:47:18,180
reporting or even researching such

3864
02:47:23,230 --> 02:47:20,180
phenomena

3865
02:47:25,910 --> 02:47:23,240
that said by encouraging military

3866
02:47:28,070 --> 02:47:25,920
aviators to disclose anomalies that

3867
02:47:30,170 --> 02:47:28,080
they've seen or detected the Department

3868
02:47:33,050 --> 02:47:30,180
of Defense is receiving many more

3869
02:47:35,330 --> 02:47:33,060
reports I think in the time that we've

3870
02:47:37,550 --> 02:47:35,340
been looking at this topic growing from

3871
02:47:39,410 --> 02:47:37,560
an ODI report that was something like

3872
02:47:41,210 --> 02:47:39,420
500 to I think this morning we heard

3873
02:47:42,770 --> 02:47:41,220
something like 800 now so that's

3874
02:47:46,010 --> 02:47:42,780
accelerating

3875
02:47:48,349 --> 02:47:46,020
and DOD will soon also mandate if not

3876
02:47:50,630 --> 02:47:48,359
already reporting by pilots which will

3877
02:47:53,809 --> 02:47:50,640
even grow that set

3878
02:47:56,210 --> 02:47:53,819
I would propose to this panel that NASA

3879
02:47:58,969 --> 02:47:56,220
can help make it safer for researchers

3880
02:48:01,969 --> 02:47:58,979
to explore data in the Civil airspace

3881
02:48:04,550 --> 02:48:01,979
domain simply by starting that work

3882
02:48:06,950 --> 02:48:04,560
internally

3883
02:48:08,809 --> 02:48:06,960
NASA could look at how civil anomaly

3884
02:48:11,990 --> 02:48:08,819
data is shared

3885
02:48:14,690 --> 02:48:12,000
study how to incentivize reporting

3886
02:48:16,309 --> 02:48:14,700
assess the possibility of crowdsourcing

3887
02:48:17,870 --> 02:48:16,319
data which I think we've heard a bit

3888
02:48:19,730 --> 02:48:17,880
about this afternoon

3889
02:48:23,690 --> 02:48:19,740
or sponsor and participate in

3890
02:48:26,990 --> 02:48:23,700
conferences on UAP detection

3891
02:48:30,170 --> 02:48:27,000
our team has really only seen I'd say a

3892
02:48:32,450 --> 02:48:30,180
few unclassified images of UAP

3893
02:48:35,750 --> 02:48:32,460
which lack the contextual data that's

3894
02:48:37,849 --> 02:48:35,760
needed to understand their true nature

3895
02:48:39,830 --> 02:48:37,859
and I believe we've heard a single

3896
02:48:42,410 --> 02:48:39,840
first-hand account from a former

3897
02:48:45,349 --> 02:48:42,420
military Aviator

3898
02:48:47,990 --> 02:48:45,359
so one of my colleagues Josh has an

3899
02:48:51,889 --> 02:48:48,000
example to show just why it would be

3900
02:48:56,690 --> 02:48:51,899
important for NASA to also help shape

3901
02:48:59,570 --> 02:48:56,700
how the data and information is reported

3902
02:49:01,250 --> 02:48:59,580
but before I turn the mic over to Josh I

3903
02:49:03,469 --> 02:49:01,260
want to make a recommendation to my

3904
02:49:07,010 --> 02:49:03,479
fellow panelists that we consider

3905
02:49:09,830 --> 02:49:07,020
advising NASA to more fully assess the

3906
02:49:12,950 --> 02:49:09,840
cultural and social barriers to studying

3907
02:49:15,410 --> 02:49:12,960
and Reporting uip and for NASA to

3908
02:49:20,750 --> 02:49:15,420
implement a plan to leverage its brand

3909
02:49:24,590 --> 02:49:22,910
that

3910
02:49:28,250 --> 02:49:24,600
you just want to go up and then we'll

3911
02:49:42,469 --> 02:49:30,170
so you can call on a slide deck if you

3912
02:49:48,050 --> 02:49:44,570
so it's not it's not the charge of our

3913
02:49:49,790 --> 02:49:48,060
panel to evaluate UAP evidence but part

3914
02:49:52,730 --> 02:49:49,800
of our statement of task is to assess

3915
02:49:54,290 --> 02:49:52,740
the scientific analysis techniques that

3916
02:49:58,010 --> 02:49:54,300
are available you don't have to start it

3917
02:49:59,570 --> 02:49:58,020
just yet and the um and how we might use

3918
02:50:01,790 --> 02:49:59,580
them to determine physical constraints

3919
02:50:04,370 --> 02:50:01,800
on UAP

3920
02:50:06,770 --> 02:50:04,380
uh you know the UAP reports with the

3921
02:50:09,110 --> 02:50:06,780
most detailed contextual information are

3922
02:50:12,170 --> 02:50:09,120
the ones from the Navy aviators uh and

3923
02:50:14,450 --> 02:50:12,180
they're using a combination of um of

3924
02:50:16,550 --> 02:50:14,460
ranging and uh infrared Imaging

3925
02:50:18,349 --> 02:50:16,560
information and for these cases we can

3926
02:50:21,530 --> 02:50:18,359
directly calculate critical parameters

3927
02:50:24,230 --> 02:50:21,540
of a UAP such as altitude and velocity

3928
02:50:25,849 --> 02:50:24,240
under certain assumptions uh and it's

3929
02:50:27,889 --> 02:50:25,859
you know the main point I want to make

3930
02:50:30,950 --> 02:50:27,899
here is that this multi-sensor approach

3931
02:50:33,590 --> 02:50:30,960
is absolutely critical to um charting a

3932
02:50:35,450 --> 02:50:33,600
path forward for UAP investigations and

3933
02:50:37,550 --> 02:50:35,460
that pertains to NASA as well

3934
02:50:39,830 --> 02:50:37,560
so I'm going to provide one example here

3935
02:50:42,490 --> 02:50:39,840
just to illustrate the crucial role of

3936
02:50:44,030 --> 02:50:42,500
Science and scientific analysis

3937
02:50:46,429 --> 02:50:44,040
and

3938
02:50:49,070 --> 02:50:46,439
the role of scientific analysis to avoid

3939
02:50:51,469 --> 02:50:49,080
misinterpretation in some sense next

3940
02:50:51,479 --> 02:50:56,870
hit space

3941
02:51:00,950 --> 02:50:59,389
yeah okay so this is um

3942
02:51:02,809 --> 02:51:00,960
this video was recorded by

3943
02:51:05,929 --> 02:51:02,819
um Pilots deployed from the aircraft

3944
02:51:08,090 --> 02:51:05,939
carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt in 2015.

3945
02:51:10,550 --> 02:51:08,100
the example has been given the nickname

3946
02:51:12,349 --> 02:51:10,560
go fast because it gives an impression

3947
02:51:14,809 --> 02:51:12,359
of an object moving very rapidly against

3948
02:51:16,370 --> 02:51:14,819
the ocean surface and uh you know the

3949
02:51:18,349 --> 02:51:16,380
question is is this impression correct

3950
02:51:20,570 --> 02:51:18,359
and you know if not what can we say

3951
02:51:23,090 --> 02:51:20,580
quantitatively about what that object is

3952
02:51:26,090 --> 02:51:23,100
doing in uh kind of earth-centered

3953
02:51:27,710 --> 02:51:26,100
coordinate system

3954
02:51:29,630 --> 02:51:27,720
um fortunately the information needed to

3955
02:51:31,190 --> 02:51:29,640
determine the altitude and velocity of

3956
02:51:33,410 --> 02:51:31,200
this object is contained on the display

3957
02:51:35,150 --> 02:51:33,420
so go ahead and

3958
02:51:37,070 --> 02:51:35,160
next

3959
02:51:39,770 --> 02:51:37,080
and uh

3960
02:51:41,090 --> 02:51:39,780
this includes the elevation angle of the

3961
02:51:46,130 --> 02:51:41,100
camera

3962
02:51:48,349 --> 02:51:46,140
target range in nautical miles aircraft

3963
02:51:51,070 --> 02:51:48,359
altitude uh the time reference in

3964
02:51:53,389 --> 02:51:51,080
seconds indicated air speed and Knots

3965
02:51:55,070 --> 02:51:53,399
you know this information in this video

3966
02:51:57,290 --> 02:51:55,080
in particular has been discussed quite a

3967
02:51:58,190 --> 02:51:57,300
bit on the on the web

3968
02:52:01,790 --> 02:51:58,200
um

3969
02:52:05,630 --> 02:52:01,800
so let's begin with the object altitude

3970
02:52:10,070 --> 02:52:07,849
so knowing the Jet's altitude and the

3971
02:52:12,650 --> 02:52:10,080
bearing to the Target we can apply basic

3972
02:52:14,889 --> 02:52:12,660
trigonometry to figure out where that

3973
02:52:17,570 --> 02:52:14,899
object is in altitude space and it's

3974
02:52:20,929 --> 02:52:17,580
turns out to be you know provided the

3975
02:52:22,490 --> 02:52:20,939
range information is accurate which can

3976
02:52:24,889 --> 02:52:22,500
have some uncertainties associated with

3977
02:52:28,969 --> 02:52:24,899
it but the object appears to be at about

3978
02:52:30,650 --> 02:52:28,979
13 000 feet an important aspect of this

3979
02:52:34,250 --> 02:52:30,660
here is that it's sort of midway between

3980
02:52:35,990 --> 02:52:34,260
the uh the jet and the ocean so it's the

3981
02:52:39,830 --> 02:52:36,000
ocean that looks like it's right behind

3982
02:52:42,590 --> 02:52:39,840
it is actually 4.2 miles away and this

3983
02:52:44,450 --> 02:52:42,600
is our first indication that some or

3984
02:52:46,450 --> 02:52:44,460
most of the motion that we observe the

3985
02:52:49,429 --> 02:52:46,460
apparent motion of the object

3986
02:52:51,950 --> 02:52:49,439
is in fact due to the rapid motion of

3987
02:52:54,769 --> 02:52:51,960
the sensing platform which is about 430

3988
02:52:58,370 --> 02:52:54,779
miles per hour in this case

3989
02:53:00,110 --> 02:52:58,380
uh but we don't have to guess about this

3990
02:53:03,050 --> 02:53:00,120
so we have enough information on this

3991
02:53:06,889 --> 02:53:03,060
display to actually reconstruct

3992
02:53:10,130 --> 02:53:06,899
um the encounter go to the next slide

3993
02:53:12,050 --> 02:53:10,140
please and uh so this is what this is

3994
02:53:15,590 --> 02:53:12,060
this is using additional information on

3995
02:53:18,050 --> 02:53:15,600
the screen including the time axis and

3996
02:53:20,030 --> 02:53:18,060
um so we know that this aircraft is

3997
02:53:22,250 --> 02:53:20,040
banking about 15 degrees left and you

3998
02:53:24,469 --> 02:53:22,260
can compute through a simple calculator

3999
02:53:27,349 --> 02:53:24,479
the radius approximate radius of

4000
02:53:28,790 --> 02:53:27,359
curvature of the flight and you the

4001
02:53:30,710 --> 02:53:28,800
bottom line is I won't go into detail

4002
02:53:32,570 --> 02:53:30,720
here but if you can get the bearing and

4003
02:53:34,610 --> 02:53:32,580
range to the Target at two locations

4004
02:53:36,469 --> 02:53:34,620
with known separation in time you can

4005
02:53:40,190 --> 02:53:36,479
figure out how far it moved and in this

4006
02:53:43,190 --> 02:53:40,200
case this object moved about 390 meters

4007
02:53:46,490 --> 02:53:43,200
um in 22 seconds and that corresponds to

4008
02:53:48,290 --> 02:53:46,500
a velocity of just 40 miles per hour

4009
02:53:51,050 --> 02:53:48,300
and so that's a velocity is consistent

4010
02:53:53,090 --> 02:53:51,060
with wind speeds at 13 000 feet

4011
02:53:54,590 --> 02:53:53,100
so it's not our task to conjecture what

4012
02:53:55,969 --> 02:53:54,600
this object is

4013
02:53:58,070 --> 02:53:55,979
um but it's an example that illustrates

4014
02:53:59,570 --> 02:53:58,080
the type of data needed to determine

4015
02:54:02,950 --> 02:53:59,580
critical parameters that will help us

4016
02:54:04,910 --> 02:54:02,960
identify sub-job objects going forward

4017
02:54:06,710 --> 02:54:04,920
in addition to the importance of

4018
02:54:08,330 --> 02:54:06,720
quantitative analysis this example also

4019
02:54:10,190 --> 02:54:08,340
serves to illustrate the kind of

4020
02:54:13,550 --> 02:54:10,200
cognitive bias we have to contend with

4021
02:54:16,969 --> 02:54:13,560
for uaps recorded from unfamiliar

4022
02:54:18,830 --> 02:54:16,979
perspectives and uh Sean Kirkpatrick

4023
02:54:22,670 --> 02:54:18,840
showed another example of that this is

4024
02:54:24,410 --> 02:54:22,680
um this is a parallax effect case

4025
02:54:26,750 --> 02:54:24,420
foreign

4026
02:54:29,330 --> 02:54:26,760
thank you

4027
02:54:31,370 --> 02:54:29,340
any questions thanks um actually before

4028
02:54:34,610 --> 02:54:31,380
we have questions actually a good moment

4029
02:54:37,190 --> 02:54:34,620
uh Sean I don't want to comment on his

4030
02:54:38,950 --> 02:54:37,200
one of the questions if we bring Sean up

4031
02:54:46,870 --> 02:54:38,960
and then take questions for everybody

4032
02:54:51,110 --> 02:54:49,010
thanks that was that was actually very

4033
02:54:53,330 --> 02:54:51,120
helpful for everyone I'm sure

4034
02:54:55,010 --> 02:54:53,340
um just one piece of clarification on

4035
02:54:56,570 --> 02:54:55,020
the video that we showed the second one

4036
02:54:59,030 --> 02:54:56,580
that was the new

4037
02:55:01,550 --> 02:54:59,040
newly released one had the three uh

4038
02:55:03,290 --> 02:55:01,560
aircraft in it the question was asked

4039
02:55:06,230 --> 02:55:03,300
about if it was a stabilized background

4040
02:55:08,929 --> 02:55:06,240
against which the Jitter was showing I I

4041
02:55:10,790 --> 02:55:08,939
am not 100 certain of that answer it

4042
02:55:13,250 --> 02:55:10,800
might just be a bunch of dust on that

4043
02:55:15,590 --> 02:55:13,260
sensor but let me go back and get you a

4044
02:55:17,330 --> 02:55:15,600
more Folsom answer it is either

4045
02:55:19,610 --> 02:55:17,340
stabilized background

4046
02:55:22,610 --> 02:55:19,620
or it's just garbage but in either event

4047
02:55:25,190 --> 02:55:22,620
the three aircraft are

4048
02:55:27,050 --> 02:55:25,200
um shittering because of the platform

4049
02:55:28,429 --> 02:55:27,060
but that's another example of exactly

4050
02:55:31,010 --> 02:55:28,439
what you're saying right it's the

4051
02:55:32,750 --> 02:55:31,020
perception of the of the operator who

4052
02:55:35,870 --> 02:55:32,760
thinks it's doing something else when

4053
02:55:38,750 --> 02:55:35,880
it's actually just your own camera

4054
02:55:40,849 --> 02:55:38,760
right yes I could just Sean in your

4055
02:55:42,769 --> 02:55:40,859
event it seemed to me that what you mean

4056
02:55:44,389 --> 02:55:42,779
by Jitter in this case is the the plane

4057
02:55:47,210 --> 02:55:44,399
is actually making motions that are

4058
02:55:50,330 --> 02:55:47,220
causing a parallax so it's actually more

4059
02:55:51,950 --> 02:55:50,340
than that uh so the plane will move and

4060
02:55:52,910 --> 02:55:51,960
that'll cause The Parallax that you just

4061
02:55:56,510 --> 02:55:52,920
showed

4062
02:55:58,490 --> 02:55:56,520
but the sensor itself the a lot of these

4063
02:56:00,170 --> 02:55:58,500
cameras are in gimbals

4064
02:56:02,030 --> 02:56:00,180
for those of you not certain what a

4065
02:56:04,130 --> 02:56:02,040
gimbal is it's the thing that your your

4066
02:56:05,450 --> 02:56:04,140
cameras sit on your telescopes sit on it

4067
02:56:06,650 --> 02:56:05,460
moves it around and in different

4068
02:56:10,969 --> 02:56:06,660
directions

4069
02:56:12,530 --> 02:56:10,979
uh those can sometimes be stabilized in

4070
02:56:15,710 --> 02:56:12,540
which case they

4071
02:56:16,790 --> 02:56:15,720
they uh damp out the motion of the

4072
02:56:19,130 --> 02:56:16,800
platform

4073
02:56:20,690 --> 02:56:19,140
and in other cases they're not and they

4074
02:56:23,030 --> 02:56:20,700
they jump around and so what you're

4075
02:56:26,030 --> 02:56:23,040
actually seeing in that video is what we

4076
02:56:28,490 --> 02:56:26,040
call Jitter of the sensor against the

4077
02:56:30,170 --> 02:56:28,500
platform so the platform's moving and

4078
02:56:33,590 --> 02:56:30,180
the sensor is moving it's not as

4079
02:56:35,929 --> 02:56:33,600
stabilized against the target but the

4080
02:56:38,269 --> 02:56:35,939
once it's collected sometimes in

4081
02:56:40,070 --> 02:56:38,279
processing the background is stabilized

4082
02:56:44,389 --> 02:56:40,080
frame to frame just like some of those

4083
02:56:46,790 --> 02:56:44,399
Tick Tock videos you see right same idea

4084
02:56:48,769 --> 02:56:46,800
yeah I just wanted to jump in here I

4085
02:56:51,769 --> 02:56:48,779
think uh make a couple of comments so

4086
02:56:56,570 --> 02:56:51,779
just follow up on what uh Josh said in

4087
02:56:59,570 --> 02:56:56,580
my experience of flying you know over 15

4088
02:57:02,030 --> 02:56:59,580
000 hours 30 something years uh in

4089
02:57:05,330 --> 02:57:02,040
airplanes and and both in space

4090
02:57:08,090 --> 02:57:05,340
and the environment that we fly in space

4091
02:57:11,510 --> 02:57:08,100
or you know an atmospheric flight very

4092
02:57:14,330 --> 02:57:11,520
very conducive to optical illusions so I

4093
02:57:16,309 --> 02:57:14,340
get it why these Pilots would look at

4094
02:57:18,889 --> 02:57:16,319
that go fast video and think it was

4095
02:57:20,690 --> 02:57:18,899
going really really fast

4096
02:57:22,730 --> 02:57:20,700
um I remember one time I was flying in

4097
02:57:25,550 --> 02:57:22,740
the warning areas off of Virginia Beach

4098
02:57:27,230 --> 02:57:25,560
Military operating area there and my Rio

4099
02:57:30,469 --> 02:57:27,240
thought the guy that sits in the back of

4100
02:57:31,790 --> 02:57:30,479
the Tomcat was convinced we flew by a

4101
02:57:34,490 --> 02:57:31,800
UFO

4102
02:57:37,429 --> 02:57:34,500
so I didn't see it we turned around we

4103
02:57:40,290 --> 02:57:37,439
went to go look at it it turns out it

4104
02:57:42,050 --> 02:57:40,300
was Bart Simpson a balloon

4105
02:57:44,690 --> 02:57:42,060
[Laughter]

4106
02:57:46,490 --> 02:57:44,700
you know oftentimes in space I would see

4107
02:57:49,550 --> 02:57:46,500
things and I was like oh that's really

4108
02:57:52,130 --> 02:57:49,560
not behaving like it should it's not it

4109
02:57:53,929 --> 02:57:52,140
doesn't have a trajectory of a satellite

4110
02:57:57,170 --> 02:57:53,939
or a planet on the back of the star

4111
02:57:59,450 --> 02:57:57,180
field and every single time when I would

4112
02:58:02,870 --> 02:57:59,460
look at it long enough I would realize

4113
02:58:04,849 --> 02:58:02,880
that it was atmospheric lensing it was

4114
02:58:06,650 --> 02:58:04,859
the fact that what what I was looking at

4115
02:58:08,690 --> 02:58:06,660
was actually flying behind the

4116
02:58:10,730 --> 02:58:08,700
atmosphere and because of variations in

4117
02:58:12,110 --> 02:58:10,740
the atmosphere it made the trajectory

4118
02:58:13,969 --> 02:58:12,120
look like it wasn't going in a straight

4119
02:58:15,590 --> 02:58:13,979
line it was going like this and then go

4120
02:58:19,070 --> 02:58:15,600
like that and it would turn in the other

4121
02:58:23,030 --> 02:58:19,080
direction always was always the case

4122
02:58:26,809 --> 02:58:23,040
my brother uh Mark Kelly a uh former

4123
02:58:29,750 --> 02:58:26,819
NASA astronaut and uh also now a U.S

4124
02:58:31,670 --> 02:58:29,760
senator I was with him for dinner last

4125
02:58:33,950 --> 02:58:31,680
night and he shared a story

4126
02:58:35,870 --> 02:58:33,960
with me again that he had shared years

4127
02:58:38,210 --> 02:58:35,880
ago but I had kind of forgotten about it

4128
02:58:41,170 --> 02:58:38,220
and I think it's worth sharing and that

4129
02:58:44,690 --> 02:58:41,180
that is when he was the commander of SDS

4130
02:58:46,190 --> 02:58:44,700
124 I think it was in 2008. they were

4131
02:58:48,349 --> 02:58:46,200
getting ready to close the payload bay

4132
02:58:51,110 --> 02:58:48,359
doors of the Space Shuttle

4133
02:58:53,210 --> 02:58:51,120
and before they do that you got to make

4134
02:58:54,530 --> 02:58:53,220
sure nothing interferes with the doors

4135
02:58:56,450 --> 02:58:54,540
because if the doors don't close

4136
02:58:58,070 --> 02:58:56,460
properly the space shuttle can't

4137
02:58:59,690 --> 02:58:58,080
re-enter the atmosphere it would come

4138
02:59:02,450 --> 02:58:59,700
apart it's part of the structural

4139
02:59:04,730 --> 02:59:02,460
Integrity of the vehicle so they see

4140
02:59:07,670 --> 02:59:04,740
something in the payload Bay and they

4141
02:59:09,830 --> 02:59:07,680
thought it was a tool maybe a bolt they

4142
02:59:11,630 --> 02:59:09,840
couldn't quite figure it out they were

4143
02:59:14,510 --> 02:59:11,640
potentially going to have to go and do a

4144
02:59:16,309 --> 02:59:14,520
spacewalk to retrieve it

4145
02:59:18,050 --> 02:59:16,319
but before they did that my brother

4146
02:59:20,210 --> 02:59:18,060
grabbed the camera they took a picture

4147
02:59:24,710 --> 02:59:20,220
of it and when they blew up the picture

4148
02:59:27,110 --> 02:59:24,720
they realized that this is not a bolt or

4149
02:59:28,849 --> 02:59:27,120
a tool in the payload Bay it was

4150
02:59:31,250 --> 02:59:28,859
actually the International Space Station

4151
02:59:34,010 --> 02:59:31,260
that was 80 miles away

4152
02:59:37,429 --> 02:59:34,020
I mean that's just a really good example

4153
02:59:39,590 --> 02:59:37,439
of how this environment we operate in is

4154
02:59:41,870 --> 02:59:39,600
so so conducive optical illusions

4155
02:59:43,790 --> 02:59:41,880
oftentimes guys fly into the water and

4156
02:59:46,070 --> 02:59:43,800
there are cases where you know Pilots

4157
02:59:48,290 --> 02:59:46,080
have rendezvoused on a buoy because they

4158
02:59:50,269 --> 02:59:48,300
thought that was their wingman it's just

4159
02:59:51,830 --> 02:59:50,279
very very

4160
02:59:54,170 --> 02:59:51,840
um challenging environment to work and

4161
02:59:56,630 --> 02:59:54,180
especially at night and

4162
02:59:59,269 --> 02:59:56,640
in my experience the sensors kind of

4163
03:00:04,190 --> 02:59:59,279
have the same issues as the you know the

4164
03:00:07,910 --> 03:00:05,570
okay

4165
03:00:09,230 --> 03:00:07,920
so per what Scott just said I think we

4166
03:00:11,570 --> 03:00:09,240
need to take it as an action to

4167
03:00:14,389 --> 03:00:11,580
investigate unidentified animated

4168
03:00:17,450 --> 03:00:14,399
phenomena to go after all right Simpson

4169
03:00:21,050 --> 03:00:17,460
I I think what Josh and Scott said is

4170
03:00:23,450 --> 03:00:21,060
very very helpful and shows why we need

4171
03:00:25,550 --> 03:00:23,460
multiple sources of data

4172
03:00:28,070 --> 03:00:25,560
where their radar hits were there other

4173
03:00:30,349 --> 03:00:28,080
sightings unless we can look at this

4174
03:00:33,889 --> 03:00:30,359
from a holistic perspective it's very

4175
03:00:35,690 --> 03:00:33,899
difficult to draw conclusions and

4176
03:00:38,150 --> 03:00:35,700
relative to stigma and I appreciate the

4177
03:00:39,530 --> 03:00:38,160
reports that our colleagues gave I think

4178
03:00:41,090 --> 03:00:39,540
there's plenty of stigma right here in

4179
03:00:43,610 --> 03:00:41,100
this building and I'm sure Dan you

4180
03:00:46,130 --> 03:00:43,620
suffered from it at times

4181
03:00:48,170 --> 03:00:46,140
and I just want to commend administrator

4182
03:00:50,269 --> 03:00:48,180
though who's always be Senator Nelson to

4183
03:00:52,309 --> 03:00:50,279
me for his leadership and candidly

4184
03:00:54,050 --> 03:00:52,319
courage and getting the asset to tackle

4185
03:00:56,929 --> 03:00:54,060
this issue

4186
03:00:58,790 --> 03:00:56,939
and as we look at what Sean had

4187
03:01:01,730 --> 03:00:58,800
articulated that what he wants NASA to

4188
03:01:03,650 --> 03:01:01,740
do as we look at the recommendations for

4189
03:01:06,530 --> 03:01:03,660
reporting and how we need to collate

4190
03:01:08,510 --> 03:01:06,540
that reporting I'm very concerned that

4191
03:01:12,349 --> 03:01:08,520
this could be effectively done on an ad

4192
03:01:16,490 --> 03:01:12,359
hoc basis and I've been a part of far

4193
03:01:19,250 --> 03:01:16,500
too many panels and studies that end up

4194
03:01:21,889 --> 03:01:19,260
sitting on the shelf I don't want this

4195
03:01:23,870 --> 03:01:21,899
to be one of those exercises and we can

4196
03:01:26,809 --> 03:01:23,880
discuss this further but I would call

4197
03:01:29,750 --> 03:01:26,819
for and recommend a permanent office

4198
03:01:32,389 --> 03:01:29,760
within NASA to support this activity

4199
03:01:34,010 --> 03:01:32,399
albeit likely a modest one but to

4200
03:01:37,130 --> 03:01:34,020
collate this information collate that

4201
03:01:40,250 --> 03:01:37,140
data to Archive the information and act

4202
03:01:43,730 --> 03:01:40,260
as the open forward-facing counterpart

4203
03:01:45,410 --> 03:01:43,740
to Sean and aaro I think then we could

4204
03:01:47,929 --> 03:01:45,420
continue and actually accomplish the

4205
03:01:49,969 --> 03:01:47,939
reporting the stigma issues that have

4206
03:01:53,690 --> 03:01:49,979
been raised and we could do so in a

4207
03:01:55,610 --> 03:01:53,700
relatively affordable fashion because

4208
03:02:00,170 --> 03:01:55,620
again I don't want all of our work to

4209
03:02:06,230 --> 03:02:04,250
so now Jen's going to turn to our charge

4210
03:02:12,769 --> 03:02:06,240
and

4211
03:02:15,290 --> 03:02:12,779
convened with a set of questions that we

4212
03:02:17,690 --> 03:02:15,300
were charged to address we've been

4213
03:02:19,670 --> 03:02:17,700
addressing them through the topics we've

4214
03:02:21,710 --> 03:02:19,680
talked about and through things as we've

4215
03:02:23,750 --> 03:02:21,720
been thinking this through but we're

4216
03:02:26,030 --> 03:02:23,760
going to organize the next part of the

4217
03:02:28,429 --> 03:02:26,040
discussion with Jen presenting these

4218
03:02:30,469 --> 03:02:28,439
things and this is also a chance to get

4219
03:02:33,349 --> 03:02:30,479
into some of the discussion phase

4220
03:02:36,590 --> 03:02:33,359
because we can look at each of these

4221
03:02:38,870 --> 03:02:36,600
questions as the topics that we make we

4222
03:02:41,030 --> 03:02:38,880
want to make sure we address as part of

4223
03:02:43,790 --> 03:02:41,040
the report Jen

4224
03:02:46,969 --> 03:02:43,800
uh thanks David and I want to thank the

4225
03:02:48,469 --> 03:02:46,979
panelists all for all of your work all

4226
03:02:51,469 --> 03:02:48,479
of the knowledge that I've gained from

4227
03:02:54,650 --> 03:02:51,479
from each of you through this time I

4228
03:02:57,230 --> 03:02:54,660
took it upon myself in preparing for

4229
03:03:00,290 --> 03:02:57,240
today's meeting to draft a statement

4230
03:03:04,730 --> 03:03:00,300
that answers the eight questions that we

4231
03:03:07,790 --> 03:03:04,740
were provided at the beginning of the

4232
03:03:08,990 --> 03:03:07,800
uh last summer when the the panel was

4233
03:03:10,070 --> 03:03:09,000
was created

4234
03:03:13,010 --> 03:03:10,080
um so I'm going to read the question out

4235
03:03:15,469 --> 03:03:13,020
loud I'm going to read my statement and

4236
03:03:17,389 --> 03:03:15,479
I'm going to pause and let you think and

4237
03:03:19,190 --> 03:03:17,399
reflect and if there's remember this

4238
03:03:20,929 --> 03:03:19,200
isn't all of the details associated with

4239
03:03:23,030 --> 03:03:20,939
each of these answers right this is to

4240
03:03:25,250 --> 03:03:23,040
be a kind of high level make sure we've

4241
03:03:26,870 --> 03:03:25,260
got the major points there to let you

4242
03:03:28,910 --> 03:03:26,880
think and reflect and if there's

4243
03:03:30,410 --> 03:03:28,920
remember this isn't all of the details

4244
03:03:32,630 --> 03:03:30,420
associated with each of these answers

4245
03:03:35,630 --> 03:03:32,640
right this is to be a kind of high level

4246
03:03:38,990 --> 03:03:35,640
mixture we've got the major points there

4247
03:03:40,910 --> 03:03:39,000
um and and this is an initial take for

4248
03:03:44,090 --> 03:03:40,920
for these answers

4249
03:03:46,790 --> 03:03:44,100
so the first question goes what types of

4250
03:03:49,969 --> 03:03:46,800
scientific data currently collected and

4251
03:03:52,190 --> 03:03:49,979
archived by NASA or other civilian

4252
03:03:56,150 --> 03:03:52,200
government entities should be

4253
03:03:58,670 --> 03:03:56,160
synthesized and analyzed prior to

4254
03:04:00,650 --> 03:03:58,680
potentially shed light on the nature and

4255
03:04:03,889 --> 03:04:00,660
origins of UAP

4256
03:04:07,550 --> 03:04:03,899
so the panel reviewed data sources

4257
03:04:12,110 --> 03:04:07,560
analytic tools data architectures from

4258
03:04:16,309 --> 03:04:12,120
NASA NOAA FAA Commerce and others

4259
03:04:18,710 --> 03:04:16,319
the data that we recognize were not

4260
03:04:19,730 --> 03:04:18,720
collected for the purpose of identifying

4261
03:04:22,010 --> 03:04:19,740
UAP

4262
03:04:24,769 --> 03:04:22,020
which leaves bias in the data that was

4263
03:04:26,929 --> 03:04:24,779
collected even though there is an

4264
03:04:29,750 --> 03:04:26,939
immense amount of data available it is

4265
03:04:32,410 --> 03:04:29,760
hard to access and the sensors that were

4266
03:04:38,990 --> 03:04:32,420
used were not well calibrated for

4267
03:04:43,809 --> 03:04:41,570
no questions moving forward question

4268
03:04:47,269 --> 03:04:43,819
number two I kind of feel like Jeopardy

4269
03:04:49,370 --> 03:04:47,279
what what types of scientific data

4270
03:04:52,490 --> 03:04:49,380
currently collected and held by

4271
03:04:54,530 --> 03:04:52,500
non-profits and companies should be

4272
03:04:56,630 --> 03:04:54,540
synthesized and analyzed to potentially

4273
03:04:58,630 --> 03:04:56,640
shed light on the nature and origins of

4274
03:05:01,730 --> 03:04:58,640
UAP

4275
03:05:04,250 --> 03:05:01,740
many organizations exist to track

4276
03:05:06,170 --> 03:05:04,260
sightings of anomalous phenomena in the

4277
03:05:09,830 --> 03:05:06,180
Earth's atmosphere

4278
03:05:11,809 --> 03:05:09,840
both non-profit for-profit and otherwise

4279
03:05:13,309 --> 03:05:11,819
the study panel concluded that much of

4280
03:05:14,990 --> 03:05:13,319
the inputs collected by these

4281
03:05:18,469 --> 03:05:15,000
organizations are not considered

4282
03:05:20,809 --> 03:05:18,479
scientific data in nature and that they

4283
03:05:23,750 --> 03:05:20,819
do not contain unbiased information

4284
03:05:26,929 --> 03:05:23,760
they're not repeatable and they

4285
03:05:29,510 --> 03:05:26,939
typically come with eyewitness accounts

4286
03:05:31,250 --> 03:05:29,520
which we've heard even today that

4287
03:05:33,710 --> 03:05:31,260
there's a

4288
03:05:38,990 --> 03:05:33,720
hesitations with using only eyewitness

4289
03:05:43,790 --> 03:05:41,990
um to the point about commercial or

4290
03:05:47,150 --> 03:05:43,800
companies there are a lot of space

4291
03:05:50,389 --> 03:05:47,160
companies that some lobbied hard to get

4292
03:05:52,250 --> 03:05:50,399
in to present to us they have trolls of

4293
03:05:54,050 --> 03:05:52,260
data but they're collected for a variety

4294
03:05:56,630 --> 03:05:54,060
of different purposes than the purpose

4295
03:05:58,910 --> 03:05:56,640
of UAP and those systems while they are

4296
03:06:02,210 --> 03:05:58,920
well calibrated are only one source of

4297
03:06:08,570 --> 03:06:06,349
um questions comments concerns yes Carla

4298
03:06:09,410 --> 03:06:08,580
I'll bite on that one Jen

4299
03:06:13,010 --> 03:06:09,420
um

4300
03:06:15,769 --> 03:06:13,020
you know I I think your answer is

4301
03:06:18,170 --> 03:06:15,779
correct as to what we've seen but where

4302
03:06:20,269 --> 03:06:18,180
I would go is if we made a

4303
03:06:22,370 --> 03:06:20,279
recommendation to NASA that you know

4304
03:06:26,030 --> 03:06:22,380
we're really asking them to build a

4305
03:06:28,670 --> 03:06:26,040
roadmap and we haven't done a robust

4306
03:06:30,710 --> 03:06:28,680
catalog and we've looked at sources

4307
03:06:33,530 --> 03:06:30,720
mentioned sources that we think might be

4308
03:06:35,690 --> 03:06:33,540
relevant but perhaps a more robust

4309
03:06:37,370 --> 03:06:35,700
effort cataloging would be a good modest

4310
03:06:41,090 --> 03:06:37,380
start yeah

4311
03:06:42,590 --> 03:06:41,100
that's good I I will only in slight

4312
03:06:44,630 --> 03:06:42,600
defense of trying to answer the exact

4313
03:06:46,429 --> 03:06:44,640
question as opposed to the panel rather

4314
03:06:48,650 --> 03:06:46,439
than trying to add recommendations at

4315
03:06:51,170 --> 03:06:48,660
this point but yes Point well taken

4316
03:06:53,150 --> 03:06:51,180
thank you yeah I mean I think one of the

4317
03:06:55,370 --> 03:06:53,160
data sets so we just learned about you

4318
03:06:57,469 --> 03:06:55,380
know heard more about today and thinking

4319
03:07:00,650 --> 03:06:57,479
about so calibrating things is the FAA

4320
03:07:02,510 --> 03:07:00,660
data on a normal you know tracking

4321
03:07:05,929 --> 03:07:02,520
events right and I think this is

4322
03:07:08,690 --> 03:07:05,939
something where if we had you know

4323
03:07:11,030 --> 03:07:08,700
some imaging software people you know

4324
03:07:14,269 --> 03:07:11,040
sell citizen scientists with cell phone

4325
03:07:17,030 --> 03:07:14,279
cameras Identify some event that looks

4326
03:07:20,450 --> 03:07:17,040
interesting one of the places you'd like

4327
03:07:22,370 --> 03:07:20,460
to be able to turn is the FAA data and

4328
03:07:24,410 --> 03:07:22,380
having

4329
03:07:26,830 --> 03:07:24,420
um you know if there is to go back to

4330
03:07:29,929 --> 03:07:26,840
you know having a NASA

4331
03:07:31,070 --> 03:07:29,939
responsibility for data NASA might you

4332
03:07:33,769 --> 03:07:31,080
know

4333
03:07:37,309 --> 03:07:33,779
has a lot of experience in serving as a

4334
03:07:39,349 --> 03:07:37,319
clearing house for data from across the

4335
03:07:40,730 --> 03:07:39,359
government for civilian data right this

4336
03:07:43,070 --> 03:07:40,740
is something we do in lots of different

4337
03:07:45,530 --> 03:07:43,080
areas and I I think there are some

4338
03:07:47,389 --> 03:07:45,540
opportunities with data sets there and I

4339
03:07:49,010 --> 03:07:47,399
think the the radar data is one that

4340
03:07:51,230 --> 03:07:49,020
comes to mind is one we don't want to

4341
03:07:53,570 --> 03:07:51,240
forget about as an available data center

4342
03:07:55,910 --> 03:07:53,580
yeah absolutely

4343
03:07:58,490 --> 03:07:55,920
um question three I think goes more

4344
03:08:00,590 --> 03:07:58,500
towards the recommendations of what

4345
03:08:04,190 --> 03:08:00,600
other types of scientific data should be

4346
03:08:05,630 --> 03:08:04,200
collected by NASA to enhance the

4347
03:08:07,610 --> 03:08:05,640
potential for developing an

4348
03:08:10,130 --> 03:08:07,620
understanding of the nature and origins

4349
03:08:11,269 --> 03:08:10,140
of UAP so we've heard now from two of

4350
03:08:14,570 --> 03:08:11,279
the panelists on some of the information

4351
03:08:16,250 --> 03:08:14,580
that should be collected or the way that

4352
03:08:18,050 --> 03:08:16,260
some of that data should be organized in

4353
03:08:21,530 --> 03:08:18,060
a manner to make it available for people

4354
03:08:24,410 --> 03:08:21,540
to analyze that information

4355
03:08:25,269 --> 03:08:24,420
um and the only other thoughts that I

4356
03:08:29,510 --> 03:08:25,279
had

4357
03:08:31,670 --> 03:08:29,520
here was was really recognizing the

4358
03:08:34,969 --> 03:08:31,680
difference in

4359
03:08:37,670 --> 03:08:34,979
um the sensor thresholds right so we

4360
03:08:39,769 --> 03:08:37,680
can't always tune a sensor all the way

4361
03:08:41,330 --> 03:08:39,779
to the resolution that we might need or

4362
03:08:43,730 --> 03:08:41,340
we might want

4363
03:08:45,469 --> 03:08:43,740
um and and as we collect that data to

4364
03:08:48,889 --> 03:08:45,479
recognize for the scientists that are

4365
03:08:50,750 --> 03:08:48,899
doing those analyzes the bounds of each

4366
03:08:53,510 --> 03:08:50,760
of the systems that they're that they're

4367
03:08:57,710 --> 03:08:55,429
yeah

4368
03:09:00,950 --> 03:08:57,720
you know what strikes me on that one

4369
03:09:03,110 --> 03:09:00,960
when you were reading the the answer the

4370
03:09:03,769 --> 03:09:03,120
proposed answer was

4371
03:09:07,849 --> 03:09:03,779
um

4372
03:09:11,210 --> 03:09:07,859
what may be new maybe something that's

4373
03:09:14,210 --> 03:09:11,220
new to NASA in the sense of like a Time

4374
03:09:16,730 --> 03:09:14,220
series so we can know what's normal so

4375
03:09:19,130 --> 03:09:16,740
we can perhaps identify what's not

4376
03:09:22,010 --> 03:09:19,140
normal or anomalous right

4377
03:09:24,710 --> 03:09:22,020
so I'm not sure to what extent

4378
03:09:26,269 --> 03:09:24,720
um it's like the most unsexy thing to

4379
03:09:28,250 --> 03:09:26,279
sell on the face of the planet right is

4380
03:09:30,650 --> 03:09:28,260
making consistent long-term observations

4381
03:09:32,929 --> 03:09:30,660
but I think that the agency may be set

4382
03:09:35,630 --> 03:09:32,939
up to do just that for multiple reasons

4383
03:09:37,969 --> 03:09:35,640
right yeah persistent yeah data

4384
03:09:38,990 --> 03:09:37,979
collection the agency does that in a lot

4385
03:09:41,389 --> 03:09:39,000
of cases for us through physical

4386
03:09:43,309 --> 03:09:41,399
purposes so the infrastructure of course

4387
03:09:44,150 --> 03:09:43,319
you know pointing up and pointing at a

4388
03:09:46,550 --> 03:09:44,160
different distance but the

4389
03:09:48,769 --> 03:09:46,560
infrastructure for collecting this kind

4390
03:09:52,670 --> 03:09:48,779
of data organizing and keeping it and

4391
03:09:53,750 --> 03:09:52,680
that does exist yeah and there are in

4392
03:09:55,910 --> 03:09:53,760
their defense a lot of satellite

4393
03:09:59,929 --> 03:09:55,920
companies that are doing that persistent

4394
03:10:05,870 --> 03:10:03,469
okay uh question for which scientific

4395
03:10:08,510 --> 03:10:05,880
analysis techniques currently in

4396
03:10:11,389 --> 03:10:08,520
production could be employed to assess

4397
03:10:13,490 --> 03:10:11,399
the nature and origins of UAP which

4398
03:10:16,010 --> 03:10:13,500
types of analysis techniques should be

4399
03:10:20,330 --> 03:10:16,020
developed so this is a two-part with

4400
03:10:22,570 --> 03:10:20,340
what exists today and what should be so

4401
03:10:25,429 --> 03:10:22,580
we're looking also at recommendations

4402
03:10:27,889 --> 03:10:25,439
based on the information provided by the

4403
03:10:30,230 --> 03:10:27,899
presenters to the panel there are very

4404
03:10:31,630 --> 03:10:30,240
few credible analysis text techniques

4405
03:10:33,969 --> 03:10:31,640
available

4406
03:10:37,610 --> 03:10:33,979
that currently exist

4407
03:10:39,950 --> 03:10:37,620
to assess the nature and origins of UAP

4408
03:10:41,750 --> 03:10:39,960
the onset of artificial intelligence and

4409
03:10:44,870 --> 03:10:41,760
automated analysis techniques give

4410
03:10:46,730 --> 03:10:44,880
promise to being able to do that in the

4411
03:10:48,769 --> 03:10:46,740
future

4412
03:10:50,710 --> 03:10:48,779
um I wanted to add something to that

4413
03:10:53,269 --> 03:10:50,720
perhaps which is that really to design

4414
03:10:55,550 --> 03:10:53,279
the analysis you need to know what the

4415
03:10:57,349 --> 03:10:55,560
data looks like right so

4416
03:11:00,230 --> 03:10:57,359
um you know we can't really say what

4417
03:11:01,490 --> 03:11:00,240
kind of analysis should be created on

4418
03:11:03,590 --> 03:11:01,500
the hypothetical data that we're

4419
03:11:06,170 --> 03:11:03,600
recommending should be collected in a in

4420
03:11:08,450 --> 03:11:06,180
a in some you know somewhat specified

4421
03:11:10,849 --> 03:11:08,460
fashion if it's all hypothetical and we

4422
03:11:12,830 --> 03:11:10,859
want to collect all of this data and we

4423
03:11:14,510 --> 03:11:12,840
know what format it's going to be in we

4424
03:11:16,550 --> 03:11:14,520
can design analysis techniques around it

4425
03:11:18,530 --> 03:11:16,560
and at that point it's likely that there

4426
03:11:20,690 --> 03:11:18,540
are analysis techniques that are that

4427
03:11:23,389 --> 03:11:20,700
already exist absolutely lots of anomaly

4428
03:11:25,370 --> 03:11:23,399
detection work we just don't know which

4429
03:11:27,530 --> 03:11:25,380
one will be more suitable because the

4430
03:11:28,550 --> 03:11:27,540
data as it should be doesn't exist yet

4431
03:11:30,050 --> 03:11:28,560
correct

4432
03:11:31,610 --> 03:11:30,060
you said exactly what I was going to say

4433
03:11:33,590 --> 03:11:31,620
yeah and that that's what I was getting

4434
03:11:35,030 --> 03:11:33,600
at with my point not that it was an

4435
03:11:36,769 --> 03:11:35,040
it doesn't exist in in the scientific

4436
03:11:38,269 --> 03:11:36,779
Community just that they're not being

4437
03:11:40,490 --> 03:11:38,279
applied to this problem set right now

4438
03:11:44,030 --> 03:11:40,500
and it's hard to apply them when we

4439
03:11:46,849 --> 03:11:44,040
don't have the the known data of what

4440
03:11:48,469 --> 03:11:46,859
would go into those David yeah I I think

4441
03:11:50,990 --> 03:11:48,479
something we want to stress here is the

4442
03:11:53,030 --> 03:11:51,000
importance of uniform data yes in the

4443
03:11:55,550 --> 03:11:53,040
way it's collected because particularly

4444
03:11:57,830 --> 03:11:55,560
when you're looking for outliers if you

4445
03:12:00,230 --> 03:11:57,840
have data coming from many different

4446
03:12:02,870 --> 03:12:00,240
observing techniques right and just

4447
03:12:05,090 --> 03:12:02,880
having a uniform set of cameras a

4448
03:12:07,130 --> 03:12:05,100
uniform set of detectors so you

4449
03:12:09,050 --> 03:12:07,140
understand and characterize them right

4450
03:12:12,230 --> 03:12:09,060
because this is a a needle in the

4451
03:12:15,110 --> 03:12:12,240
haystack problem and you know every

4452
03:12:18,769 --> 03:12:15,120
camera I mean I'd mentioned in the uh

4453
03:12:20,570 --> 03:12:18,779
opening session ghosting in Optics yes

4454
03:12:22,429 --> 03:12:20,580
now that's going to be different in

4455
03:12:23,809 --> 03:12:22,439
every different detector every day right

4456
03:12:26,090 --> 03:12:23,819
and you

4457
03:12:27,590 --> 03:12:26,100
um before we get to the analysis

4458
03:12:30,830 --> 03:12:27,600
techniques we want to make sure we

4459
03:12:32,750 --> 03:12:30,840
design the data collection so that the

4460
03:12:35,450 --> 03:12:32,760
analysis techniques can effectively be

4461
03:12:39,110 --> 03:12:35,460
used on it right David can take a slight

4462
03:12:44,090 --> 03:12:40,969
it sounds like you're implying that you

4463
03:12:45,650 --> 03:12:44,100
need a single way of collecting the data

4464
03:12:47,510 --> 03:12:45,660
I'd argue it's really you need to

4465
03:12:48,830 --> 03:12:47,520
understand the various ways in which

4466
03:12:51,590 --> 03:12:48,840
you're collecting the data and you're

4467
03:12:52,969 --> 03:12:51,600
able to cross calibrate across those

4468
03:12:54,950 --> 03:12:52,979
different approaches

4469
03:12:59,990 --> 03:12:54,960
uh because I seriously doubt that there

4470
03:13:02,630 --> 03:13:00,000
is a single detector I I think a handful

4471
03:13:04,969 --> 03:13:02,640
of ways so that you're yeah well

4472
03:13:07,429 --> 03:13:04,979
characterized things things need to be

4473
03:13:10,250 --> 03:13:07,439
well characterized to be useful I guess

4474
03:13:11,929 --> 03:13:10,260
is the way I would state it and uh it

4475
03:13:13,730 --> 03:13:11,939
takes time and energy to well

4476
03:13:15,469 --> 03:13:13,740
characterize things so that that's

4477
03:13:18,290 --> 03:13:15,479
that's I think the challenge

4478
03:13:20,389 --> 03:13:18,300
so following up on both your points I

4479
03:13:22,250 --> 03:13:20,399
think it's where we can actually apply

4480
03:13:24,110 --> 03:13:22,260
artificial intelligence so we cannot

4481
03:13:26,570 --> 03:13:24,120
apply Artificial Intelligence on the

4482
03:13:29,650 --> 03:13:26,580
current data but we can apply artificial

4483
03:13:32,030 --> 03:13:29,660
intelligence in a way that we can design

4484
03:13:34,370 --> 03:13:32,040
characteristics for the data that we

4485
03:13:37,670 --> 03:13:34,380
need and how we can collect the data

4486
03:13:40,670 --> 03:13:39,469
is probably more of a frustration than

4487
03:13:42,410 --> 03:13:40,680
anything else so I don't know how

4488
03:13:44,269 --> 03:13:42,420
helpful it'll be but

4489
03:13:46,490 --> 03:13:44,279
I think we're not looking for a needle

4490
03:13:47,990 --> 03:13:46,500
in Haystack we're looking for anomaly in

4491
03:13:51,110 --> 03:13:48,000
Haystack we don't even know that we're

4492
03:13:52,690 --> 03:13:51,120
looking for a needle that it's just a

4493
03:13:54,889 --> 03:13:52,700
discolored piece of hay

4494
03:13:56,630 --> 03:13:54,899
I'm from Montana so I love good hay

4495
03:13:58,910 --> 03:13:56,640
analogy

4496
03:14:00,230 --> 03:13:58,920
I don't know what the phenomenology is

4497
03:14:02,750 --> 03:14:00,240
that we're looking for

4498
03:14:04,490 --> 03:14:02,760
we say anomalous again in this question

4499
03:14:06,530 --> 03:14:04,500
earlier what does that mean anomalous

4500
03:14:08,750 --> 03:14:06,540
acceleration like I think as we try to

4501
03:14:11,150 --> 03:14:08,760
look at the data we're starting from an

4502
03:14:13,010 --> 03:14:11,160
almost impossible position when if we

4503
03:14:15,250 --> 03:14:13,020
don't know what we're looking for is it

4504
03:14:17,269 --> 03:14:15,260
a radiation signature is it something

4505
03:14:19,790 --> 03:14:17,279
electromagnetic is it something like

4506
03:14:21,830 --> 03:14:19,800
that is why this is so challenging and

4507
03:14:23,990 --> 03:14:21,840
frustrating to me that we're talking

4508
03:14:25,550 --> 03:14:24,000
about monitoring something that we don't

4509
03:14:28,429 --> 03:14:25,560
even know what we're supposed to Monitor

4510
03:14:31,330 --> 03:14:28,439
and let me just offer Josh before you

4511
03:14:35,269 --> 03:14:31,340
jump in the the scientific process of

4512
03:14:38,450 --> 03:14:35,279
hypothesis-driven research right of that

4513
03:14:40,969 --> 03:14:38,460
while we don't know all of the possible

4514
03:14:43,849 --> 03:14:40,979
outcomes in the entire world we can ask

4515
03:14:47,210 --> 03:14:43,859
very specific questions and go about it

4516
03:14:49,910 --> 03:14:47,220
in a very scientific process to

4517
03:14:52,010 --> 03:14:49,920
understand so you're right we don't know

4518
03:14:54,769 --> 03:14:52,020
exactly what we're looking for but we

4519
03:14:58,969 --> 03:14:54,779
know hot spots as we've seen from both

4520
03:15:00,530 --> 03:14:58,979
FAA and arrow we do know some of those

4521
03:15:02,929 --> 03:15:00,540
conditions that we might be able looking

4522
03:15:05,510 --> 03:15:02,939
for so if you start with with kind of

4523
03:15:07,610 --> 03:15:05,520
what you know or places to start to go

4524
03:15:10,429 --> 03:15:07,620
and look and you start with the data

4525
03:15:13,429 --> 03:15:10,439
that we have available to us

4526
03:15:15,530 --> 03:15:13,439
we might start being able to untangle

4527
03:15:17,450 --> 03:15:15,540
the chicken and egg problem

4528
03:15:20,389 --> 03:15:17,460
so Jen what is the phenomena that we're

4529
03:15:25,550 --> 03:15:22,809
so we've heard them from Sean

4530
03:15:27,110 --> 03:15:25,560
I would pull up Sean's chart but I can't

4531
03:15:29,030 --> 03:15:27,120
quickly do that

4532
03:15:31,130 --> 03:15:29,040
um of the criteria that he said on the

4533
03:15:34,610 --> 03:15:31,140
trends I use word criteria he said

4534
03:15:36,469 --> 03:15:34,620
trends of six or seven

4535
03:15:41,210 --> 03:15:36,479
um

4536
03:15:44,570 --> 03:15:41,220
uh phenomena I guess of specific size or

4537
03:15:45,830 --> 03:15:44,580
within a specific motion range and it's

4538
03:15:47,570 --> 03:15:45,840
something

4539
03:15:50,090 --> 03:15:47,580
different than what we've seen before

4540
03:15:51,590 --> 03:15:50,100
something we don't recognize

4541
03:15:53,630 --> 03:15:51,600
and so when you go to look for something

4542
03:15:57,170 --> 03:15:53,640
that you don't recognize

4543
03:15:59,210 --> 03:15:57,180
it it can be pretty easy and that we've

4544
03:16:01,269 --> 03:15:59,220
fooled ourselves today and even watching

4545
03:16:03,590 --> 03:16:01,279
some of these videos of what's going on

4546
03:16:06,410 --> 03:16:03,600
but when you're able to corroborate that

4547
03:16:08,090 --> 03:16:06,420
with three or four other sources it

4548
03:16:09,889 --> 03:16:08,100
starts to make sense

4549
03:16:12,590 --> 03:16:09,899
right so something that looks like magic

4550
03:16:14,330 --> 03:16:12,600
to the naked eye or to that camera in

4551
03:16:17,389 --> 03:16:14,340
that sensor

4552
03:16:19,250 --> 03:16:17,399
um isn't once you understand all of the

4553
03:16:20,809 --> 03:16:19,260
effects of what was going on in the

4554
03:16:23,210 --> 03:16:20,819
surrounding environment

4555
03:16:24,410 --> 03:16:23,220
it's a good question can we um because I

4556
03:16:27,710 --> 03:16:24,420
got the same frustration you do right

4557
03:16:29,030 --> 03:16:27,720
it's it's regardless of um uh what

4558
03:16:30,950 --> 03:16:29,040
you're looking for if you don't know

4559
03:16:32,809 --> 03:16:30,960
what it is whether you're using AI or

4560
03:16:34,429 --> 03:16:32,819
match filtering techniques you can't

4561
03:16:35,929 --> 03:16:34,439
find it right you can't find it so I

4562
03:16:38,389 --> 03:16:35,939
guess a question I have is can we use

4563
03:16:39,769 --> 03:16:38,399
social media that kind of thing as a way

4564
03:16:40,849 --> 03:16:39,779
of queuing

4565
03:16:42,230 --> 03:16:40,859
um to know where something's happening

4566
03:16:44,030 --> 03:16:42,240
because we know Google searches can lead

4567
03:16:45,889 --> 03:16:44,040
you to better understand where outbreaks

4568
03:16:47,269 --> 03:16:45,899
happen right disease outbreaks can you

4569
03:16:48,590 --> 03:16:47,279
use similar type of conflation of data

4570
03:16:50,750 --> 03:16:48,600
to start saying well something's going

4571
03:16:52,370 --> 03:16:50,760
on here let's start cueing sensors in

4572
03:16:54,769 --> 03:16:52,380
that area that requires some real-time

4573
03:16:57,290 --> 03:16:54,779
capability but is that something we can

4574
03:17:00,110 --> 03:16:57,300
think about

4575
03:17:01,969 --> 03:17:00,120
can I object to that just a bit uh I you

4576
03:17:05,269 --> 03:17:01,979
can find things that you don't know how

4577
03:17:07,250 --> 03:17:05,279
they look okay there is a lot of the

4578
03:17:09,170 --> 03:17:07,260
algorithms in anomaly detection are

4579
03:17:12,230 --> 03:17:09,180
really based on let's know let's find

4580
03:17:14,389 --> 03:17:12,240
out how what we know looks like so that

4581
03:17:16,370 --> 03:17:14,399
anything that doesn't look like that can

4582
03:17:17,690 --> 03:17:16,380
be identified and spotted and then we

4583
03:17:20,030 --> 03:17:17,700
can think whether or not we understand

4584
03:17:23,330 --> 03:17:20,040
you right and so I think the point about

4585
03:17:25,969 --> 03:17:23,340
the homogeneous detectors really is

4586
03:17:27,469 --> 03:17:25,979
about that we need to have a solid

4587
03:17:29,690 --> 03:17:27,479
understanding of the normal to attack

4588
03:17:32,150 --> 03:17:29,700
the abnormal was really outliers as we

4589
03:17:35,809 --> 03:17:32,160
sometimes perhaps more often call them

4590
03:17:38,150 --> 03:17:35,819
in in science right yeah absolutely

4591
03:17:40,130 --> 03:17:38,160
um I do want to be cautious of time

4592
03:17:42,710 --> 03:17:40,140
we were supposed to end this about 10

4593
03:17:44,090 --> 03:17:42,720
minutes ago right so but this is drifted

4594
03:17:46,670 --> 03:17:44,100
into discussion but I think we're doing

4595
03:17:47,929 --> 03:17:46,680
discussion so do you have any last topic

4596
03:17:49,429 --> 03:17:47,939
you want to hit if not then we'll just

4597
03:17:50,630 --> 03:17:49,439
open up to General discussion I have

4598
03:17:52,670 --> 03:17:50,640
four more questions that we're

4599
03:17:55,450 --> 03:17:52,680
technically supposed to answer all right

4600
03:17:58,070 --> 03:17:55,460
let's do one

4601
03:18:03,710 --> 03:17:58,080
we can do four questions in two minutes

4602
03:18:08,150 --> 03:18:06,349
what basic physical constraints can be

4603
03:18:09,590 --> 03:18:08,160
placed on the nature and origins of UAP

4604
03:18:14,570 --> 03:18:09,600
Mike would you like to take this

4605
03:18:19,010 --> 03:18:14,580
question absolutely okay got it

4606
03:18:21,230 --> 03:18:19,020
um I uh in my my notes to answer this

4607
03:18:23,809 --> 03:18:21,240
knew that Sean had presented some Trends

4608
03:18:25,070 --> 03:18:23,819
so I I used that kind of as the basis

4609
03:18:26,870 --> 03:18:25,080
for

4610
03:18:28,309 --> 03:18:26,880
um what basic physical constraints could

4611
03:18:30,889 --> 03:18:28,319
be available

4612
03:18:32,870 --> 03:18:30,899
um and also the Josh's presentation that

4613
03:18:34,969 --> 03:18:32,880
he just presented of we know some of

4614
03:18:36,889 --> 03:18:34,979
these are still in the realm of

4615
03:18:38,570 --> 03:18:36,899
understanding we just haven't applied

4616
03:18:40,370 --> 03:18:38,580
basic physics to understand what's there

4617
03:18:43,730 --> 03:18:40,380
what we have

4618
03:18:46,250 --> 03:18:43,740
uh question six what civilian airspace

4619
03:18:49,309 --> 03:18:46,260
data related to uaps have been collected

4620
03:18:52,969 --> 03:18:49,319
by government agencies and are available

4621
03:18:54,710 --> 03:18:52,979
for analysis to a inform efforts to

4622
03:18:58,670 --> 03:18:54,720
better understand the nature and origins

4623
03:19:01,309 --> 03:18:58,680
of uaps and B determine the risk of uaps

4624
03:19:02,030 --> 03:19:01,319
to the National airspace

4625
03:19:04,610 --> 03:19:02,040
um

4626
03:19:08,510 --> 03:19:04,620
so

4627
03:19:09,830 --> 03:19:08,520
examples from today to kind of move

4628
03:19:11,150 --> 03:19:09,840
quickly

4629
03:19:14,210 --> 03:19:11,160
um some of this in Mike freeze

4630
03:19:16,790 --> 03:19:14,220
presentation and talking about the the

4631
03:19:18,530 --> 03:19:16,800
error risks right that FAA is always

4632
03:19:19,309 --> 03:19:18,540
looking out for

4633
03:19:21,290 --> 03:19:19,319
um

4634
03:19:24,469 --> 03:19:21,300
we know

4635
03:19:26,210 --> 03:19:24,479
um by altitude and by sensor and

4636
03:19:28,790 --> 03:19:26,220
curvature of the earth and line of sight

4637
03:19:30,889 --> 03:19:28,800
and as you get higher that you can see

4638
03:19:33,170 --> 03:19:30,899
more right so we have a lot of Civilian

4639
03:19:34,330 --> 03:19:33,180
airspace data that can start to

4640
03:19:37,910 --> 03:19:34,340
understand

4641
03:19:39,670 --> 03:19:37,920
the nature and origins of the UAP and

4642
03:19:43,130 --> 03:19:39,680
determining the risk

4643
03:19:45,530 --> 03:19:43,140
is based on how much you know right so

4644
03:19:47,929 --> 03:19:45,540
you think about I I go straight to space

4645
03:19:50,330 --> 03:19:47,939
and I think about satellites and one's

4646
03:19:52,250 --> 03:19:50,340
um tiny piece of space debris can

4647
03:19:54,050 --> 03:19:52,260
destroy an entire satellite because

4648
03:19:57,110 --> 03:19:54,060
they're moving really really fast in in

4649
03:20:00,530 --> 03:19:57,120
the vacuum of space it's not necessarily

4650
03:20:02,150 --> 03:20:00,540
so true in airspace right

4651
03:20:06,469 --> 03:20:02,160
um but something that we don't know

4652
03:20:09,349 --> 03:20:06,479
could have a severe impact on pilots and

4653
03:20:11,389 --> 03:20:09,359
their flight plan and all of that which

4654
03:20:15,050 --> 03:20:11,399
then could really

4655
03:20:16,969 --> 03:20:15,060
uh wreak havoc on all of all of the

4656
03:20:18,650 --> 03:20:16,979
United States airspace and so being able

4657
03:20:20,510 --> 03:20:18,660
to understand and identify what those

4658
03:20:23,750 --> 03:20:20,520
are phenomena are

4659
03:20:25,610 --> 03:20:23,760
um will help de-risk the the air flight

4660
03:20:27,530 --> 03:20:25,620
safety

4661
03:20:31,370 --> 03:20:27,540
the in the National airspace

4662
03:20:32,870 --> 03:20:31,380
um question seven what current reporting

4663
03:20:35,570 --> 03:20:32,880
protocols and air traffic management

4664
03:20:38,030 --> 03:20:35,580
data acquisition systems can be modified

4665
03:20:41,150 --> 03:20:38,040
to acquire additional data on past and

4666
03:20:42,769 --> 03:20:41,160
future uaps we've heard a lot of the

4667
03:20:45,710 --> 03:20:42,779
reporting structures it was talked about

4668
03:20:48,290 --> 03:20:45,720
earlier today those probably can be

4669
03:20:50,150 --> 03:20:48,300
adapted and improved and it's up to us

4670
03:20:53,210 --> 03:20:50,160
in discussion as the panel on what those

4671
03:20:55,790 --> 03:20:53,220
recommendations might be question eight

4672
03:20:58,309 --> 03:20:55,800
and I'll get off stage what potential

4673
03:21:00,889 --> 03:20:58,319
enhancements to the Future air traffic

4674
03:21:03,710 --> 03:21:00,899
management development efforts can be

4675
03:21:06,469 --> 03:21:03,720
recommended to acquire data concerning

4676
03:21:08,210 --> 03:21:06,479
future reported uaps to assist in the

4677
03:21:11,150 --> 03:21:08,220
effort to better understand the nature

4678
03:21:11,809 --> 03:21:11,160
and origins of the uaps

4679
03:21:14,929 --> 03:21:11,819
um

4680
03:21:16,969 --> 03:21:14,939
the potential enhancements

4681
03:21:19,730 --> 03:21:16,979
automatic filtering of the knowns has

4682
03:21:20,450 --> 03:21:19,740
come up as a talking point

4683
03:21:22,210 --> 03:21:20,460
um

4684
03:21:27,590 --> 03:21:22,220
these are

4685
03:21:28,370 --> 03:21:27,600
uh specific really to acquiring data

4686
03:21:31,450 --> 03:21:28,380
um

4687
03:21:35,690 --> 03:21:31,460
the tuning of those sensor platforms

4688
03:21:38,150 --> 03:21:35,700
the multimodal Spectrum collection and

4689
03:21:41,110 --> 03:21:38,160
being able to kind of time stamp or

4690
03:21:44,510 --> 03:21:41,120
geostamp each of those to to collaborate

4691
03:21:46,670 --> 03:21:44,520
the the sightings so I will leave the

4692
03:21:48,650 --> 03:21:46,680
panel with that with time to continue

4693
03:21:52,610 --> 03:21:48,660
discussion

4694
03:21:52,620 --> 03:22:05,030
okay great let me go up to let me uh

4695
03:22:10,250 --> 03:22:07,450
but before I open it up I just wanted to

4696
03:22:12,170 --> 03:22:10,260
restate federica's answer to Mike for

4697
03:22:14,870 --> 03:22:12,180
hey

4698
03:22:15,769 --> 03:22:14,880
if you know the properties of hay very

4699
03:22:17,870 --> 03:22:15,779
well

4700
03:22:19,670 --> 03:22:17,880
and you can you go through your Haystack

4701
03:22:22,309 --> 03:22:19,680
and say

4702
03:22:23,929 --> 03:22:22,319
I don't know what this is but it doesn't

4703
03:22:26,269 --> 03:22:23,939
look like hey

4704
03:22:28,490 --> 03:22:26,279
you don't need to have a match filter

4705
03:22:32,389 --> 03:22:28,500
looking for a needle in a haystack if

4706
03:22:32,399 --> 03:22:36,710
I

4707
03:22:43,429 --> 03:22:40,429
now as a New York City resident

4708
03:22:44,870 --> 03:22:43,439
my impression is we go through hay with

4709
03:22:47,269 --> 03:22:44,880
your you don't want to do it with your

4710
03:22:53,450 --> 03:22:49,969
but I I defer to you

4711
03:22:58,429 --> 03:22:53,460
on a uh yeah

4712
03:23:01,790 --> 03:22:58,439
I think yeah yeah so um I want to

4713
03:23:03,590 --> 03:23:01,800
in the final minutes we have here before

4714
03:23:05,809 --> 03:23:03,600
the public session

4715
03:23:08,269 --> 03:23:05,819
look to the Future

4716
03:23:10,070 --> 03:23:08,279
I think a lot of us have looked at the

4717
03:23:11,690 --> 03:23:10,080
data we have now with a sense of

4718
03:23:15,530 --> 03:23:11,700
dissatisfaction

4719
03:23:17,929 --> 03:23:15,540
and say what data would you want and how

4720
03:23:19,969 --> 03:23:17,939
would you want to collect it

4721
03:23:22,969 --> 03:23:19,979
um and just think about you know we

4722
03:23:25,670 --> 03:23:22,979
don't need to design the detectors but

4723
03:23:28,309 --> 03:23:25,680
think about the characterization that we

4724
03:23:30,110 --> 03:23:28,319
we'd like what wavelengths we'd like and

4725
03:23:33,710 --> 03:23:30,120
you know just to kind of throw that out

4726
03:23:39,370 --> 03:23:33,720
as a one way to think about uh

4727
03:23:45,590 --> 03:23:42,469
so one thing that strikes me in that

4728
03:23:48,349 --> 03:23:45,600
question is that I'm not totally certain

4729
03:23:50,170 --> 03:23:48,359
that we've dedicated our time and effort

4730
03:23:53,030 --> 03:23:50,180
to looking for

4731
03:23:54,830 --> 03:23:53,040
anomalies I think by default there are

4732
03:23:58,670 --> 03:23:54,840
some science communities

4733
03:24:00,530 --> 03:23:58,680
that look for things like um uh the

4734
03:24:02,630 --> 03:24:00,540
Genesis of a hurricane or a harmful

4735
03:24:05,750 --> 03:24:02,640
algal bloom in the ocean or you know

4736
03:24:07,550 --> 03:24:05,760
something in interstellar space but I'm

4737
03:24:10,070 --> 03:24:07,560
not sure we ever focused our

4738
03:24:11,690 --> 03:24:10,080
interdisciplinary effort on that and I

4739
03:24:13,849 --> 03:24:11,700
think the question you ask is a really

4740
03:24:16,250 --> 03:24:13,859
interesting one part of our statement of

4741
03:24:18,410 --> 03:24:16,260
task right but I'm not sure I can answer

4742
03:24:19,670 --> 03:24:18,420
that quite yet that's how I feel about

4743
03:24:23,210 --> 03:24:19,680
that one

4744
03:24:27,290 --> 03:24:24,590
surely right

4745
03:24:28,429 --> 03:24:27,300
um yeah going along with Dr buns Happy's

4746
03:24:30,170 --> 03:24:28,439
point there

4747
03:24:32,809 --> 03:24:30,180
we heard a lot from Arrow about

4748
03:24:35,330 --> 03:24:32,819
specifics about the needle one to four

4749
03:24:38,330 --> 03:24:35,340
meters in size zero to Mach two you can

4750
03:24:41,929 --> 03:24:38,340
then look at NASA's assets right

4751
03:24:44,330 --> 03:24:41,939
and look at its spatial resolution its

4752
03:24:45,889 --> 03:24:44,340
spectral resolution in particular the

4753
03:24:47,630 --> 03:24:45,899
frame rate to get I'm going to get your

4754
03:24:49,309 --> 03:24:47,640
question here

4755
03:24:51,830 --> 03:24:49,319
um Dr spurgle

4756
03:24:53,990 --> 03:24:51,840
you can look at the current NASA assets

4757
03:24:56,990 --> 03:24:54,000
and try to say which ones could find

4758
03:24:58,610 --> 03:24:57,000
that needle the ones that uh Dr

4759
03:25:01,190 --> 03:24:58,620
Kirkpatrick put forward

4760
03:25:03,950 --> 03:25:01,200
that analysis has not been done so one

4761
03:25:06,710 --> 03:25:03,960
of my recommendations would be for NASA

4762
03:25:09,170 --> 03:25:06,720
to convene a group and a task force to

4763
03:25:12,950 --> 03:25:09,180
look at its current assets to calculate

4764
03:25:15,590 --> 03:25:12,960
what current available data current data

4765
03:25:18,590 --> 03:25:15,600
and current facilities could answer

4766
03:25:21,050 --> 03:25:18,600
insight into that now to get to your

4767
03:25:24,950 --> 03:25:21,060
future question looking at this I see

4768
03:25:27,710 --> 03:25:24,960
Walter is um frame rate I see a really

4769
03:25:29,570 --> 03:25:27,720
big issue with frame rate so if you want

4770
03:25:31,969 --> 03:25:29,580
to catch fast moving objects you need to

4771
03:25:34,250 --> 03:25:31,979
take quick images if you want to get to

4772
03:25:36,950 --> 03:25:34,260
these very small sizes and resolution

4773
03:25:38,630 --> 03:25:36,960
depending on altitude where your actual

4774
03:25:39,590 --> 03:25:38,640
you're taking your image from ground or

4775
03:25:42,349 --> 03:25:39,600
space

4776
03:25:45,170 --> 03:25:42,359
NASA will likely have to increase its

4777
03:25:48,110 --> 03:25:45,180
frame rate into its detectors

4778
03:25:50,150 --> 03:25:48,120
I think a short answer to what NASA's

4779
03:25:52,190 --> 03:25:50,160
current assets would be able to see

4780
03:25:54,710 --> 03:25:52,200
would be really big Haystacks that are

4781
03:25:56,050 --> 03:25:54,720
moving very slowly which I think is the

4782
03:25:58,670 --> 03:25:56,060
point that you're making

4783
03:26:00,410 --> 03:25:58,680
but that doesn't mean that that data is

4784
03:26:02,570 --> 03:26:00,420
not useful because if it's able to

4785
03:26:03,710 --> 03:26:02,580
characterize the background extremely

4786
03:26:05,150 --> 03:26:03,720
well

4787
03:26:08,269 --> 03:26:05,160
that

4788
03:26:10,309 --> 03:26:08,279
gives you a better idea of what unusual

4789
03:26:11,929 --> 03:26:10,319
looks like basically anything that you

4790
03:26:15,110 --> 03:26:11,939
do that characterizes the background

4791
03:26:16,729 --> 03:26:15,120
will contribute to an understanding

4792
03:26:18,950 --> 03:26:16,739
so we're going to have to cut this off

4793
03:26:21,349 --> 03:26:18,960
now because we're now going to our our

4794
03:26:26,809 --> 03:26:21,359
public session public comment session so

4795
03:26:26,819 --> 03:26:31,150
foreign

4796
03:26:36,410 --> 03:26:33,830
I am Karen Fox with NASA's office of

4797
03:26:39,469 --> 03:26:36,420
communications and we are segwaying into

4798
03:26:43,010 --> 03:26:39,479
the public q a portion of this meeting

4799
03:26:45,349 --> 03:26:43,020
uh as a reminder this is a facca meeting

4800
03:26:48,110 --> 03:26:45,359
that is a federal advisory committee act

4801
03:26:49,790 --> 03:26:48,120
and so we are under guidance which says

4802
03:26:53,929 --> 03:26:49,800
that these meetings are public and that

4803
03:26:56,269 --> 03:26:53,939
we take public uh questions uh we got

4804
03:26:57,410 --> 03:26:56,279
hundreds and hundreds of questions and I

4805
03:26:59,630 --> 03:26:57,420
just wanted to take a moment to say

4806
03:27:01,490 --> 03:26:59,640
thank you to everybody who who submitted

4807
03:27:03,110 --> 03:27:01,500
them uh we're obviously not going to get

4808
03:27:04,610 --> 03:27:03,120
to all of them today but we are going to

4809
03:27:07,630 --> 03:27:04,620
make attempts to answer some of them

4810
03:27:11,090 --> 03:27:07,640
online you can always check back to

4811
03:27:12,410 --> 03:27:11,100
science.nasa.gov UAP where over time we

4812
03:27:14,750 --> 03:27:12,420
will make it clear where we're putting

4813
03:27:16,070 --> 03:27:14,760
up some more of those answers in the

4814
03:27:20,929 --> 03:27:16,080
meantime we did have to make some

4815
03:27:23,210 --> 03:27:20,939
decisions uh we stuck two questions that

4816
03:27:25,090 --> 03:27:23,220
applied to this independent study and

4817
03:27:27,110 --> 03:27:25,100
uaps there were a lot of questions about

4818
03:27:29,150 --> 03:27:27,120
astrobiology and other subjects that

4819
03:27:31,130 --> 03:27:29,160
we're not going to get to today and also

4820
03:27:33,229 --> 03:27:31,140
in attempt to get to as many of the

4821
03:27:35,269 --> 03:27:33,239
questions as possible since so many of

4822
03:27:37,429 --> 03:27:35,279
them were similar we've we've sort of

4823
03:27:39,170 --> 03:27:37,439
bucketed them and that is how we're

4824
03:27:40,370 --> 03:27:39,180
going to try to address as many as

4825
03:27:42,110 --> 03:27:40,380
possible so I'm going to toss the

4826
03:27:43,849 --> 03:27:42,120
questions to you and we'll and we'll

4827
03:27:45,530 --> 03:27:43,859
look to getting some answers for our for

4828
03:27:50,570 --> 03:27:45,540
our public questions

4829
03:27:53,450 --> 03:27:50,580
all right so first set of questions

4830
03:27:55,490 --> 03:27:53,460
um are specifically about the the data

4831
03:27:58,010 --> 03:27:55,500
being used so

4832
03:28:00,650 --> 03:27:58,020
examples what exactly are you

4833
03:28:02,929 --> 03:28:00,660
incorporating into your report what data

4834
03:28:05,389 --> 03:28:02,939
are we using what are some examples of

4835
03:28:07,490 --> 03:28:05,399
data being used do we have multi-sensor

4836
03:28:09,650 --> 03:28:07,500
data or of objects performing Maneuvers

4837
03:28:12,050 --> 03:28:09,660
that seem truly anomalous do we have

4838
03:28:13,429 --> 03:28:12,060
photos videos what about having the NASA

4839
03:28:15,349 --> 03:28:13,439
historian go through the NASA's

4840
03:28:17,990 --> 03:28:15,359
historical records did you interview

4841
03:28:19,610 --> 03:28:18,000
military or Pilots for this study so

4842
03:28:23,269 --> 03:28:19,620
looking for some information about the

4843
03:28:27,710 --> 03:28:25,250
I can toss to anyone David looks like

4844
03:28:29,269 --> 03:28:27,720
he's jumping in well I think first and

4845
03:28:30,650 --> 03:28:29,279
foremost our goal here is a way to

4846
03:28:32,510 --> 03:28:30,660
create a roadmap

4847
03:28:35,090 --> 03:28:32,520
right so really

4848
03:28:37,130 --> 03:28:35,100
um you know we have been informed by

4849
03:28:39,590 --> 03:28:37,140
some of the events that are reported and

4850
03:28:42,050 --> 03:28:39,600
we've had uh but we've certainly not

4851
03:28:44,269 --> 03:28:42,060
done a complete historical study on our

4852
03:28:47,090 --> 03:28:44,279
in an archive and I think one of the

4853
03:28:48,830 --> 03:28:47,100
things we've wanted to do was learn what

4854
03:28:51,050 --> 03:28:48,840
kinds of events have been reported learn

4855
03:28:52,429 --> 03:28:51,060
about some of the ones have been and

4856
03:28:56,150 --> 03:28:52,439
resolve some of the ones that are

4857
03:28:58,010 --> 03:28:56,160
unresolved so we can best think about

4858
03:29:00,349 --> 03:28:58,020
how in the future

4859
03:29:02,030 --> 03:29:00,359
we can collect data so that we can get

4860
03:29:03,469 --> 03:29:02,040
more robust answers

4861
03:29:06,469 --> 03:29:03,479
so that

4862
03:29:08,510 --> 03:29:06,479
I hope that that addressed that question

4863
03:29:10,250 --> 03:29:08,520
it does

4864
03:29:13,370 --> 03:29:10,260
others have anything else they'd like to

4865
03:29:17,750 --> 03:29:14,929
all right

4866
03:29:20,510 --> 03:29:17,760
said I will keep going

4867
03:29:22,910 --> 03:29:20,520
uh another big question category was

4868
03:29:25,429 --> 03:29:22,920
about transparency and about sharing

4869
03:29:28,550 --> 03:29:25,439
information and so examples in this

4870
03:29:30,349 --> 03:29:28,560
category are what is NASA hiding and

4871
03:29:32,750 --> 03:29:30,359
where are you hiding it

4872
03:29:35,929 --> 03:29:32,760
how much has been shared publicly has

4873
03:29:38,750 --> 03:29:35,939
NASA ever cut the live NASA TV feed away

4874
03:29:41,150 --> 03:29:38,760
from something has NASA released all UAP

4875
03:29:43,790 --> 03:29:41,160
evidence it has ever received what about

4876
03:29:45,410 --> 03:29:43,800
NASA astronauts do they have an NDA or

4877
03:29:48,190 --> 03:29:45,420
clearance that does not allow them to

4878
03:29:55,550 --> 03:29:48,200
speak about UAP sightings

4879
03:30:00,070 --> 03:29:57,950
Dan Evans all right I'll take a stab at

4880
03:30:02,570 --> 03:30:00,080
the last one that one I really want to

4881
03:30:04,729 --> 03:30:02,580
assure the public

4882
03:30:07,370 --> 03:30:04,739
and to double down on the remarks I made

4883
03:30:10,190 --> 03:30:07,380
this morning that this agency is

4884
03:30:14,450 --> 03:30:10,200
absolutely cast iron committed to

4885
03:30:17,150 --> 03:30:14,460
openness and transparency and honesty

4886
03:30:19,550 --> 03:30:17,160
and that commitment also extends to our

4887
03:30:21,710 --> 03:30:19,560
live NASA TV feeds they provide

4888
03:30:22,790 --> 03:30:21,720
real-time footage from our various

4889
03:30:25,610 --> 03:30:22,800
missions

4890
03:30:28,969 --> 03:30:25,620
now to my knowledge NASA has never

4891
03:30:31,670 --> 03:30:28,979
intentionally cut a live feed to hide

4892
03:30:32,809 --> 03:30:31,680
anything and that includes uaps of

4893
03:30:35,210 --> 03:30:32,819
course

4894
03:30:37,130 --> 03:30:35,220
um sometimes there are interruptions to

4895
03:30:40,550 --> 03:30:37,140
our feeds but that is simply because

4896
03:30:42,349 --> 03:30:40,560
space is a complex place there's a vast

4897
03:30:45,229 --> 03:30:42,359
array of natural phenomena human-made

4898
03:30:47,030 --> 03:30:45,239
objects and so forth but again I wanted

4899
03:30:49,790 --> 03:30:47,040
to reassure the public that we're

4900
03:30:52,610 --> 03:30:49,800
absolutely committed to providing the

4901
03:30:54,290 --> 03:30:52,620
public transparency and openness those

4902
03:30:57,590 --> 03:30:54,300
are the Hallmarks of NASA that's why

4903
03:30:59,690 --> 03:30:57,600
we're here today in public on TV because

4904
03:31:02,389 --> 03:30:59,700
we want the public to have the

4905
03:31:05,570 --> 03:31:02,399
opportunity to see the process of this

4906
03:31:07,190 --> 03:31:05,580
committee doing its work in public it's

4907
03:31:09,710 --> 03:31:07,200
only right

4908
03:31:12,170 --> 03:31:09,720
just to follow up on what I what I said

4909
03:31:15,889 --> 03:31:12,180
I I didn't mean to be to joke about it

4910
03:31:19,309 --> 03:31:15,899
but in my 20 years at Nasa no one

4911
03:31:22,490 --> 03:31:19,319
either officially or unofficially

4912
03:31:24,650 --> 03:31:22,500
in my recollection have ever discussed

4913
03:31:27,229 --> 03:31:24,660
or briefed us or had any kind of

4914
03:31:30,889 --> 03:31:27,239
discussions about anything that would be

4915
03:31:32,809 --> 03:31:30,899
considered a UAP or UFO or anything like

4916
03:31:34,370 --> 03:31:32,819
that and I'll ask you to stand for one

4917
03:31:35,750 --> 03:31:34,380
second and state your name I'll ask you

4918
03:31:37,490 --> 03:31:35,760
to stand for one second and state your

4919
03:31:40,190 --> 03:31:37,500
name just so everybody know who was

4920
03:31:43,070 --> 03:31:40,200
speaking it's hard I'm just following up

4921
03:31:46,870 --> 03:31:43,080
on uh on the question about

4922
03:31:50,769 --> 03:31:46,880
if NASA astronauts ever signed an NDA or

4923
03:31:54,410 --> 03:31:50,779
anything of that uh anything like that

4924
03:31:56,510 --> 03:31:54,420
in my experience of being in the

4925
03:31:59,750 --> 03:31:56,520
astronaut office for 20 years there was

4926
03:32:04,929 --> 03:31:59,760
never any formal or informal discussions

4927
03:32:07,870 --> 03:32:04,939
at all about uaps or UFOs or anyone

4928
03:32:10,790 --> 03:32:07,880
reporting anything that would suggest

4929
03:32:12,950 --> 03:32:10,800
something from you know beyond our

4930
03:32:15,830 --> 03:32:12,960
planet

4931
03:32:17,450 --> 03:32:15,840
thank you very much yes please just want

4932
03:32:20,210 --> 03:32:17,460
to make a quick comment about the the

4933
03:32:23,630 --> 03:32:20,220
culture of science uh in relation to

4934
03:32:25,969 --> 03:32:23,640
this question uh scientists by Nature

4935
03:32:28,070 --> 03:32:25,979
are are at least intellectually sort of

4936
03:32:30,469 --> 03:32:28,080
rebellious it's it's it's in our nature

4937
03:32:31,670 --> 03:32:30,479
to question authority you know uh uh

4938
03:32:32,990 --> 03:32:31,680
that's how you're a good scientist you

4939
03:32:37,670 --> 03:32:33,000
don't just take someone's word for it

4940
03:32:39,349 --> 03:32:37,680
you try to uh discover the truth and for

4941
03:32:40,729 --> 03:32:39,359
that reason uh you know this question

4942
03:32:42,170 --> 03:32:40,739
about what are the science overlords

4943
03:32:44,630 --> 03:32:42,180
hiding that's sort of written in a

4944
03:32:47,809 --> 03:32:44,640
facetious way but I I just want to

4945
03:32:49,670 --> 03:32:47,819
emphasize that uh there's no way that

4946
03:32:51,830 --> 03:32:49,680
all that all scientists could be in on

4947
03:32:53,809 --> 03:32:51,840
on on on on trying to hide something

4948
03:32:55,550 --> 03:32:53,819
because it's just not in our nature if

4949
03:32:57,290 --> 03:32:55,560
somebody told me to try to hide

4950
03:33:01,070 --> 03:32:57,300
something as a scientist that would just

4951
03:33:03,769 --> 03:33:01,080
increase my desire to uh to re to belay

4952
03:33:05,630 --> 03:33:03,779
that order and and to release it and I

4953
03:33:08,330 --> 03:33:05,640
think that's true of of our our

4954
03:33:11,330 --> 03:33:08,340
community in general all right thank you

4955
03:33:12,710 --> 03:33:11,340
so much I am going to go on to our third

4956
03:33:15,290 --> 03:33:12,720
set of questions

4957
03:33:17,750 --> 03:33:15,300
um which is has NASA been tracking

4958
03:33:20,990 --> 03:33:17,760
Earth's atmosphere or are we also

4959
03:33:25,870 --> 03:33:21,000
studying bodies of water for for UAP and

4960
03:33:31,969 --> 03:33:28,969
here's the oceanographer

4961
03:33:34,610 --> 03:33:31,979
um uh so you know my understanding is

4962
03:33:36,290 --> 03:33:34,620
this is a completely independent study

4963
03:33:39,349 --> 03:33:36,300
to assess

4964
03:33:42,370 --> 03:33:39,359
you know what assets what data

4965
03:33:46,490 --> 03:33:42,380
um what science What observations

4966
03:33:49,150 --> 03:33:46,500
platforms NASA has to

4967
03:33:54,769 --> 03:33:49,160
potentially help evaluate and understand

4968
03:33:56,630 --> 03:33:54,779
uh UAP right we have um well NASA has an

4969
03:33:59,210 --> 03:33:56,640
earth science Division and many

4970
03:34:01,389 --> 03:33:59,220
scientists at many centers and many

4971
03:34:04,849 --> 03:34:01,399
academics and other partners out there

4972
03:34:06,650 --> 03:34:04,859
that study the Earth as a system we do

4973
03:34:11,090 --> 03:34:06,660
this from the unique vantage point of

4974
03:34:15,170 --> 03:34:11,100
space and the atmosphere is part of that

4975
03:34:17,389 --> 03:34:15,180
um so uh I think Dr Kirkpatrick stated

4976
03:34:20,210 --> 03:34:17,399
this morning that to his knowledge and I

4977
03:34:22,969 --> 03:34:20,220
think to ours there there isn't anything

4978
03:34:24,650 --> 03:34:22,979
that's been reported below the ocean

4979
03:34:27,229 --> 03:34:24,660
surface

4980
03:34:28,670 --> 03:34:27,239
um you know and so I think

4981
03:34:31,550 --> 03:34:28,680
part of what we've been talking about

4982
03:34:33,110 --> 03:34:31,560
all day is you know what assets are out

4983
03:34:34,790 --> 03:34:33,120
there to actually

4984
03:34:35,510 --> 03:34:34,800
begin to

4985
03:34:37,729 --> 03:34:35,520
um

4986
03:34:39,530 --> 03:34:37,739
identify data that could be useful in

4987
03:34:41,750 --> 03:34:39,540
explaining any of these reports if and

4988
03:34:44,269 --> 03:34:41,760
should they come in so I think that's

4989
03:34:47,450 --> 03:34:44,279
probably it unless there's something

4990
03:34:51,830 --> 03:34:49,610
all right then thank you

4991
03:34:55,070 --> 03:34:51,840
moving on to our fourth

4992
03:34:57,250 --> 03:34:55,080
General bucket of questions uh what are

4993
03:35:01,070 --> 03:34:57,260
you doing to solve the stigmatization

4994
03:35:03,290 --> 03:35:01,080
surrounding the study of UAP

4995
03:35:04,790 --> 03:35:03,300
I can take that one

4996
03:35:08,510 --> 03:35:04,800
and say your name if you wouldn't mind

4997
03:35:11,150 --> 03:35:08,520
first Carwin toner FAA

4998
03:35:13,610 --> 03:35:11,160
um I think the fact that NASA has called

4999
03:35:15,769 --> 03:35:13,620
us together here as a panel to look into

5000
03:35:18,710 --> 03:35:15,779
this that NASA is hosting a public

5001
03:35:20,809 --> 03:35:18,720
meeting that we've heard right it

5002
03:35:23,510 --> 03:35:20,819
clearly stated we're here to be

5003
03:35:27,050 --> 03:35:23,520
transparent I think that's the first

5004
03:35:30,530 --> 03:35:27,060
step in trying to really normalize the

5005
03:35:32,269 --> 03:35:30,540
study of uips and I you know we talked a

5006
03:35:34,729 --> 03:35:32,279
little bit earlier

5007
03:35:38,889 --> 03:35:34,739
um about the reporting about how to make

5008
03:35:41,530 --> 03:35:38,899
it credible and we talked also about UAP

5009
03:35:45,110 --> 03:35:41,540
in one of the earlier talks this morning

5010
03:35:48,050 --> 03:35:45,120
of the definition of the a whether it

5011
03:35:50,090 --> 03:35:48,060
was Ariel or anomalous has the

5012
03:35:52,130 --> 03:35:50,100
legislation now is and really the

5013
03:35:54,830 --> 03:35:52,140
distinction Beyond UFOs right when we're

5014
03:35:57,050 --> 03:35:54,840
looking at uaps here we're Beyond just

5015
03:36:00,110 --> 03:35:57,060
airplanes we're we're looking at all

5016
03:36:02,150 --> 03:36:00,120
types of anomalous phenomena

5017
03:36:05,750 --> 03:36:02,160
um and so that's just a more inclusive

5018
03:36:10,010 --> 03:36:07,670
still Michael

5019
03:36:11,630 --> 03:36:10,020
um just wanted to emphasize what uh

5020
03:36:13,070 --> 03:36:11,640
Carlin said which is so accurate I

5021
03:36:15,050 --> 03:36:13,080
really consider it quite amazing that

5022
03:36:17,570 --> 03:36:15,060
we're here having this discussion NASA

5023
03:36:19,910 --> 03:36:17,580
leadership serves great kudos for this

5024
03:36:21,769 --> 03:36:19,920
and Beyond I think a recommendation that

5025
03:36:24,670 --> 03:36:21,779
I'd like to make is that NASA

5026
03:36:27,710 --> 03:36:24,680
participate in symposia in panels

5027
03:36:30,410 --> 03:36:27,720
sponsor research when you have the NASA

5028
03:36:33,530 --> 03:36:30,420
logo on that sponsored research on the

5029
03:36:35,389 --> 03:36:33,540
discussion it really helps normalize and

5030
03:36:37,550 --> 03:36:35,399
push back against the stigma I think

5031
03:36:40,070 --> 03:36:37,560
NASA can leverage his excellent

5032
03:36:42,349 --> 03:36:40,080
reputation both domestically and abroad

5033
03:36:43,610 --> 03:36:42,359
to help push back on that stigma I think

5034
03:36:44,929 --> 03:36:43,620
it's important to do so not just for

5035
03:36:47,389 --> 03:36:44,939
Science and Discovery but for National

5036
03:36:49,130 --> 03:36:47,399
Security that we've all seen what's

5037
03:36:51,590 --> 03:36:49,140
occurred with balloons from rival

5038
03:36:53,450 --> 03:36:51,600
Nations we don't want this stigma to be

5039
03:36:56,090 --> 03:36:53,460
a vulnerability that rival Nations can

5040
03:36:58,849 --> 03:36:56,100
take advantage of

5041
03:37:01,190 --> 03:36:58,859
yes Dan good thanks Karen just a few

5042
03:37:03,229 --> 03:37:01,200
additional points um from you know the

5043
03:37:06,590 --> 03:37:03,239
agency perspective we are of course

5044
03:37:09,170 --> 03:37:06,600
taking a set of actions to effectively

5045
03:37:11,030 --> 03:37:09,180
normalize the study of UAP so that

5046
03:37:13,309 --> 03:37:11,040
involves collaborating across the

5047
03:37:15,349 --> 03:37:13,319
government encouraging an open dialogue

5048
03:37:16,849 --> 03:37:15,359
and promoting rigorous scientific

5049
03:37:19,130 --> 03:37:16,859
inquiry

5050
03:37:21,530 --> 03:37:19,140
um let me turn to each of those interns

5051
03:37:24,229 --> 03:37:21,540
so in terms of promoting a rigorous uh

5052
03:37:27,290 --> 03:37:24,239
scientific inquiry the primary way we're

5053
03:37:29,809 --> 03:37:27,300
doing this is by being truly rigorous

5054
03:37:32,710 --> 03:37:29,819
and employing an evidence-based

5055
03:37:36,410 --> 03:37:32,720
methodology in everything that we do

5056
03:37:39,410 --> 03:37:36,420
that is characteristic of scientific

5057
03:37:41,809 --> 03:37:39,420
research it's no accident that the

5058
03:37:43,729 --> 03:37:41,819
people up on this stage are true experts

5059
03:37:46,969 --> 03:37:43,739
in their reflect as respective Fields

5060
03:37:50,570 --> 03:37:46,979
okay so that is in turn going to help us

5061
03:37:52,490 --> 03:37:50,580
to legitimize UAP studies encouraging

5062
03:37:55,610 --> 03:37:52,500
open dialogue so by holding public

5063
03:37:59,090 --> 03:37:55,620
meetings such as this one and having

5064
03:38:00,950 --> 03:37:59,100
open conversations about findings then

5065
03:38:03,530 --> 03:38:00,960
we're helping to normalize discussions

5066
03:38:06,769 --> 03:38:03,540
again and that that really goes arm and

5067
03:38:08,450 --> 03:38:06,779
arm with our commitment to openness and

5068
03:38:10,490 --> 03:38:08,460
transparency with the public and then

5069
03:38:12,050 --> 03:38:10,500
finally in terms of collaborating across

5070
03:38:14,030 --> 03:38:12,060
the government we're working very

5071
03:38:16,910 --> 03:38:14,040
closely with other government agencies

5072
03:38:18,769 --> 03:38:16,920
not least Sean's office Aero uh to

5073
03:38:21,769 --> 03:38:18,779
broaden the scope and the depth of our

5074
03:38:24,110 --> 03:38:21,779
study and I honestly believe that this

5075
03:38:27,349 --> 03:38:24,120
Collective interagency approach will

5076
03:38:29,150 --> 03:38:27,359
lend credibility to the study of uaps

5077
03:38:30,830 --> 03:38:29,160
and it's going to demonstrate the

5078
03:38:34,670 --> 03:38:30,840
seriousness with which we're approaching

5079
03:38:36,410 --> 03:38:34,680
this issue thanks well that uh segues

5080
03:38:38,990 --> 03:38:36,420
very nicely into what our next set of

5081
03:38:41,690 --> 03:38:39,000
questions are which is uh who we are

5082
03:38:43,849 --> 03:38:41,700
working with so the question is who else

5083
03:38:46,550 --> 03:38:43,859
is NASA currently working with or do we

5084
03:38:56,510 --> 03:38:46,560
want to work with to study UAP and is

5085
03:38:59,929 --> 03:38:58,370
I'll take a stab at it okay

5086
03:39:03,650 --> 03:38:59,939
um as

5087
03:39:07,070 --> 03:39:03,660
the questions tasked to this panel so

5088
03:39:10,490 --> 03:39:07,080
kindly asked us both in what other

5089
03:39:12,349 --> 03:39:10,500
government agencies are collecting data

5090
03:39:13,910 --> 03:39:12,359
what data is available NASA is

5091
03:39:16,670 --> 03:39:13,920
partnering with them

5092
03:39:20,710 --> 03:39:16,680
um in in many ways as well as National

5093
03:39:23,389 --> 03:39:20,720
NASA has a wide commercial Outreach

5094
03:39:24,729 --> 03:39:23,399
and Partnerships with understanding what

5095
03:39:28,729 --> 03:39:24,739
data is available

5096
03:39:30,469 --> 03:39:28,739
as well as NASA's founded on well not

5097
03:39:33,110 --> 03:39:30,479
founded but it the

5098
03:39:35,150 --> 03:39:33,120
core principles of of NASA are with

5099
03:39:37,250 --> 03:39:35,160
International partners and so the

5100
03:39:39,410 --> 03:39:37,260
information that our partners are

5101
03:39:42,410 --> 03:39:39,420
gathering is is typically available to

5102
03:39:44,929 --> 03:39:42,420
NASA as well it's all good yes on all

5103
03:39:47,809 --> 03:39:44,939
accounts and I may just emphasize and

5104
03:39:49,309 --> 03:39:47,819
add that NASA is singular I believe

5105
03:39:51,469 --> 03:39:49,319
among government agencies and it's

5106
03:39:52,910 --> 03:39:51,479
International Outreach again not to keep

5107
03:39:54,950 --> 03:39:52,920
talking about the Artemis Accords but

5108
03:39:56,269 --> 03:39:54,960
you see countries like Saudi Arabia that

5109
03:39:58,370 --> 03:39:56,279
we may not have a great relationship

5110
03:40:00,410 --> 03:39:58,380
with as Government right now we have

5111
03:40:02,510 --> 03:40:00,420
Saudi Arabia and Israel in the Accords

5112
03:40:05,150 --> 03:40:02,520
family so that NASA is unique in its

5113
03:40:07,729 --> 03:40:05,160
scope and ability to reach out I also

5114
03:40:10,610 --> 03:40:07,739
think that we're entering a new era of

5115
03:40:12,769 --> 03:40:10,620
commercial space transportation that is

5116
03:40:14,929 --> 03:40:12,779
going from low earth orbit out to Sis

5117
03:40:16,130 --> 03:40:14,939
lunar's space and that is going to be

5118
03:40:17,929 --> 03:40:16,140
the purview of the Department of

5119
03:40:20,450 --> 03:40:17,939
Commerce which is taking over Space

5120
03:40:23,030 --> 03:40:20,460
Traffic management so I think it's very

5121
03:40:24,769 --> 03:40:23,040
important that NASA work with and

5122
03:40:26,330 --> 03:40:24,779
support Commerce as we go through that

5123
03:40:28,550 --> 03:40:26,340
transition Department of Defense is

5124
03:40:29,929 --> 03:40:28,560
currently responsible for that and I

5125
03:40:32,929 --> 03:40:29,939
think that will help us not only to

5126
03:40:35,210 --> 03:40:32,939
identify potential uaps but to assist in

5127
03:40:37,729 --> 03:40:35,220
preventing contention congestion and

5128
03:40:40,910 --> 03:40:37,739
eventually conflict and I also want to

5129
03:40:42,769 --> 03:40:40,920
note in terms of space debris debris and

5130
03:40:45,469 --> 03:40:42,779
orbit right now I believe represents an

5131
03:40:46,910 --> 03:40:45,479
existential threat to our very society

5132
03:40:49,250 --> 03:40:46,920
that we are getting very close to an

5133
03:40:51,110 --> 03:40:49,260
event that could cause real problems for

5134
03:40:51,830 --> 03:40:51,120
our ability to access satellites and

5135
03:40:53,450 --> 03:40:51,840
that's why I think there's great

5136
03:40:54,830 --> 03:40:53,460
ancillary benefits to the conversation

5137
03:40:58,010 --> 03:40:54,840
we're having today that as we increase

5138
03:40:59,990 --> 03:40:58,020
our capability to monitor orbit for uaps

5139
03:41:02,150 --> 03:41:00,000
that data could also be very relevant as

5140
03:41:04,309 --> 03:41:02,160
we look at nearest objects and other

5141
03:41:06,349 --> 03:41:04,319
threats and again to just end on the

5142
03:41:08,990 --> 03:41:06,359
Earth objects apothes for example an

5143
03:41:11,450 --> 03:41:09,000
asteroid is going to come so close to

5144
03:41:13,670 --> 03:41:11,460
Earth it will be below geosynchronous

5145
03:41:15,410 --> 03:41:13,680
satellites so any effort to begin to

5146
03:41:16,610 --> 03:41:15,420
catalog and do better in terms of

5147
03:41:17,990 --> 03:41:16,620
understanding that environment is going

5148
03:41:19,910 --> 03:41:18,000
to be terrific and I hope NASA works

5149
03:41:22,969 --> 03:41:19,920
with Commerce and international agencies

5150
03:41:24,950 --> 03:41:22,979
on Apophis and other missions

5151
03:41:27,410 --> 03:41:24,960
I think Federica had something to say

5152
03:41:28,610 --> 03:41:27,420
yeah I just wanted to add that um you

5153
03:41:30,830 --> 03:41:28,620
know a lot of the things that we think

5154
03:41:33,349 --> 03:41:30,840
we might recommend in terms of platforms

5155
03:41:35,570 --> 03:41:33,359
to collect data that would be useful to

5156
03:41:37,550 --> 03:41:35,580
study uaps you know we recommend the

5157
03:41:40,130 --> 03:41:37,560
multi-platform and multi-site that would

5158
03:41:42,469 --> 03:41:40,140
also mean likely ground-based as well as

5159
03:41:44,510 --> 03:41:42,479
space-based facilities

5160
03:41:47,690 --> 03:41:44,520
um and this is being done already in

5161
03:41:49,250 --> 03:41:47,700
astrophysics codes Irving the sky from

5162
03:41:51,830 --> 03:41:49,260
the ground and from space with different

5163
03:41:54,349 --> 03:41:51,840
methodologies and different uh different

5164
03:41:56,750 --> 03:41:54,359
instruments to get a more comprehensive

5165
03:41:59,690 --> 03:41:56,760
picture of what's normal and then did

5166
03:42:01,550 --> 03:41:59,700
that what's phenomenal and um about

5167
03:42:03,229 --> 03:42:01,560
every 10 years the scientific the

5168
03:42:05,510 --> 03:42:03,239
astrophysics Community anyways but many

5169
03:42:07,429 --> 03:42:05,520
other branches convene a panel of

5170
03:42:09,410 --> 03:42:07,439
experts to see what things can be done

5171
03:42:11,990 --> 03:42:09,420
to advance

5172
03:42:14,269 --> 03:42:12,000
um the the field in the next decade it's

5173
03:42:16,130 --> 03:42:14,279
called the decada survey for us and one

5174
03:42:18,110 --> 03:42:16,140
of the recommendations this year was

5175
03:42:21,650 --> 03:42:18,120
explicitly for agencies that do

5176
03:42:24,710 --> 03:42:21,660
astrophysics to work together so NSF doe

5177
03:42:26,330 --> 03:42:24,720
and NASA to work together share data

5178
03:42:27,650 --> 03:42:26,340
share facilities and instruments so I

5179
03:42:31,550 --> 03:42:27,660
think this is

5180
03:42:33,590 --> 03:42:31,560
um you know there's a lot of fields will

5181
03:42:35,210 --> 03:42:33,600
benefit from this including the UAP

5182
03:42:36,670 --> 03:42:35,220
studies

5183
03:42:40,130 --> 03:42:36,680
oh

5184
03:42:42,590 --> 03:42:40,140
absolutely Carl and toenar I I'd like to

5185
03:42:44,809 --> 03:42:42,600
put an exclamation point on how well

5186
03:42:47,330 --> 03:42:44,819
NASA is collaborating across the

5187
03:42:49,610 --> 03:42:47,340
government I can I'm from the FAA and I

5188
03:42:52,969 --> 03:42:49,620
can personally attest that you know FAA

5189
03:42:54,710 --> 03:42:52,979
and NASA have a robust uh engagement in

5190
03:42:58,370 --> 03:42:54,720
transferring research

5191
03:42:59,990 --> 03:42:58,380
um into practice in the ATM system I

5192
03:43:02,750 --> 03:43:00,000
think on the commercial space side we

5193
03:43:04,910 --> 03:43:02,760
work well with NASA and and all of our

5194
03:43:07,729 --> 03:43:04,920
agencies are in the whole of government

5195
03:43:11,150 --> 03:43:07,739
approach supporting Arrow specifically

5196
03:43:13,309 --> 03:43:11,160
on the uip topic and and you know it

5197
03:43:15,469 --> 03:43:13,319
really comes down to good government and

5198
03:43:18,229 --> 03:43:15,479
how we deliver because we can each work

5199
03:43:19,610 --> 03:43:18,239
our own mission space but to cover the

5200
03:43:21,229 --> 03:43:19,620
whole Space we need to collaborate

5201
03:43:23,809 --> 03:43:21,239
together

5202
03:43:27,229 --> 03:43:23,819
and Dan do you put an exclamation point

5203
03:43:29,269 --> 03:43:27,239
on Carlin's exclamation point uh

5204
03:43:30,889 --> 03:43:29,279
so I think it's important to say that

5205
03:43:32,929 --> 03:43:30,899
you know we really do have a good

5206
03:43:36,229 --> 03:43:32,939
relationship with the auto main anomaly

5207
03:43:38,630 --> 03:43:36,239
resolution office error Sean's office

5208
03:43:41,750 --> 03:43:38,640
um and it's previous or predecessor

5209
03:43:44,269 --> 03:43:41,760
organization the UAP task force and we

5210
03:43:46,849 --> 03:43:44,279
have really benefited from very fruitful

5211
03:43:49,729 --> 03:43:46,859
collaborations among those various

5212
03:43:51,349 --> 03:43:49,739
entities and quite frankly as as a

5213
03:43:52,929 --> 03:43:51,359
taxpayer one should expect nothing less

5214
03:43:55,250 --> 03:43:52,939
than the government to be working

5215
03:43:57,650 --> 03:43:55,260
effectively across different units

5216
03:43:58,610 --> 03:43:57,660
together it's only right

5217
03:44:01,550 --> 03:43:58,620
um

5218
03:44:04,309 --> 03:44:01,560
that being said it's also important to

5219
03:44:07,550 --> 03:44:04,319
acknowledge what NASA's perspective is

5220
03:44:09,050 --> 03:44:07,560
in this study and to acknowledge that

5221
03:44:10,729 --> 03:44:09,060
you know the the Department of Defense

5222
03:44:13,550 --> 03:44:10,739
the intelligence Community have have

5223
03:44:16,130 --> 03:44:13,560
massively different equities about the

5224
03:44:18,050 --> 03:44:16,140
study of UAP and they have different

5225
03:44:19,790 --> 03:44:18,060
interests ours is a purely scientific

5226
03:44:22,010 --> 03:44:19,800
one so you know we collaborate we

5227
03:44:24,889 --> 03:44:22,020
consult it's a very good relationship

5228
03:44:27,050 --> 03:44:24,899
and I agree wholeheartedly with Carolyn

5229
03:44:29,690 --> 03:44:27,060
that a whole of government approach is

5230
03:44:32,750 --> 03:44:29,700
absolutely the right one to take

5231
03:44:35,870 --> 03:44:32,760
great thank you I will move on to our

5232
03:44:38,690 --> 03:44:35,880
sixth bucket of questions uh which we

5233
03:44:41,570 --> 03:44:38,700
had many on this topic is there evidence

5234
03:44:45,469 --> 03:44:41,580
that UAP were created from non-human

5235
03:44:49,250 --> 03:44:46,969
yes please

5236
03:44:51,590 --> 03:44:49,260
I would take this one

5237
03:44:55,490 --> 03:44:51,600
um first and foremost We Are Scientists

5238
03:44:58,490 --> 03:44:55,500
and we follow the scientific process and

5239
03:45:01,490 --> 03:44:58,500
um I hope that the Gathering here today

5240
03:45:04,670 --> 03:45:01,500
uh showed a little bit of a glimpse on

5241
03:45:06,650 --> 03:45:04,680
how the scientific process works

5242
03:45:10,309 --> 03:45:06,660
um it's not the question that you can

5243
03:45:13,849 --> 03:45:10,319
answer very quickly with yes or no

5244
03:45:16,370 --> 03:45:13,859
um and uh we follow the data right so

5245
03:45:19,370 --> 03:45:16,380
um as scientists we follow the data we

5246
03:45:21,950 --> 03:45:19,380
formulate hypotheses we test theories we

5247
03:45:24,469 --> 03:45:21,960
follow the scientific process the role

5248
03:45:28,309 --> 03:45:24,479
of this panel has been to create a road

5249
03:45:30,530 --> 03:45:28,319
map and a framework for how all

5250
03:45:33,590 --> 03:45:30,540
scientists that are interested in this

5251
03:45:36,010 --> 03:45:33,600
phenomenon uh can further study can

5252
03:45:38,630 --> 03:45:36,020
further collect data can further

5253
03:45:41,450 --> 03:45:38,640
formulate experiments or again

5254
03:45:43,910 --> 03:45:41,460
hypotheses can test different methods

5255
03:45:47,030 --> 03:45:43,920
maybe even innovate on the methodology

5256
03:45:50,090 --> 03:45:47,040
side of things come up with new methods

5257
03:45:51,950 --> 03:45:50,100
for how we can do basically science but

5258
03:45:53,889 --> 03:45:51,960
not just any kind of science but the

5259
03:45:58,450 --> 03:45:53,899
science of Discovery and exploration

5260
03:46:01,610 --> 03:45:58,460
which is basically in the spirit of NASA

5261
03:46:03,710 --> 03:46:01,620
so just like Carl Sagan I was saying

5262
03:46:05,769 --> 03:46:03,720
extraordinary claims require

5263
03:46:08,450 --> 03:46:05,779
extraordinary evidence

5264
03:46:12,410 --> 03:46:08,460
we cannot make that kind of

5265
03:46:14,510 --> 03:46:12,420
extraordinary claims at all for any kind

5266
03:46:17,450 --> 03:46:14,520
of big subject in science whether it's

5267
03:46:20,510 --> 03:46:17,460
uaps whether it's biosignatures whether

5268
03:46:22,550 --> 03:46:20,520
it's techno signatures this question of

5269
03:46:24,229 --> 03:46:22,560
whether we are alone in the universe is

5270
03:46:27,410 --> 03:46:24,239
probably one of the largest questions

5271
03:46:30,170 --> 03:46:27,420
that we've had in our history of Science

5272
03:46:32,809 --> 03:46:30,180
in our history of humanity and it's not

5273
03:46:35,590 --> 03:46:32,819
one that we can take lightly and that's

5274
03:46:37,790 --> 03:46:35,600
why we need so many scientists and

5275
03:46:40,370 --> 03:46:37,800
multi-disciplinary and interdisciplinary

5276
03:46:41,830 --> 03:46:40,380
teams to work together and many

5277
03:46:46,070 --> 03:46:41,840
organizations

5278
03:46:49,309 --> 03:46:46,080
so it's a process it's a roadmap and we

5279
03:46:51,889 --> 03:46:49,319
work collectively on this and we hope

5280
03:46:53,929 --> 03:46:51,899
that within our lifetime we will be able

5281
03:46:56,570 --> 03:46:53,939
to answer this big question of whether

5282
03:46:58,790 --> 03:46:56,580
we are alone or not and also to better

5283
03:47:01,130 --> 03:46:58,800
characterize this phenomenon which is

5284
03:47:03,229 --> 03:47:01,140
uaps

5285
03:47:05,510 --> 03:47:03,239
I want to sort of supplement that

5286
03:47:07,610 --> 03:47:05,520
excellent answer by noting that we have

5287
03:47:10,670 --> 03:47:07,620
not seen the extraordinary evidence

5288
03:47:13,490 --> 03:47:10,680
right that I mean in a sense to give you

5289
03:47:16,910 --> 03:47:13,500
know to make the claim that we see

5290
03:47:20,150 --> 03:47:16,920
something that is evidence of

5291
03:47:21,830 --> 03:47:20,160
you know uh non-human intelligence would

5292
03:47:23,030 --> 03:47:21,840
be or would require extraordinary

5293
03:47:25,550 --> 03:47:23,040
evidence

5294
03:47:28,969 --> 03:47:25,560
and we have not seen that I think that's

5295
03:47:34,490 --> 03:47:32,269
all right then I will move on to our

5296
03:47:36,950 --> 03:47:34,500
seventh set of questions we received

5297
03:47:40,910 --> 03:47:36,960
many questions about the budget that is

5298
03:47:43,309 --> 03:47:40,920
being uh dedicated to this uh how large

5299
03:47:45,290 --> 03:47:43,319
of a budget will NASA allocate how large

5300
03:47:47,450 --> 03:47:45,300
of a budget is NASA allocating and how

5301
03:47:50,210 --> 03:47:47,460
large of a budget will NASA allocate

5302
03:47:52,910 --> 03:47:50,220
towards this the study of UAP it's Dan

5303
03:47:54,650 --> 03:47:52,920
yeah that's a damn question so there are

5304
03:47:57,110 --> 03:47:54,660
two separate questions in there which is

5305
03:47:57,830 --> 03:47:57,120
what is the budget for this group this

5306
03:48:00,950 --> 03:47:57,840
team

5307
03:48:02,990 --> 03:48:00,960
and what is the budget going forward I

5308
03:48:04,729 --> 03:48:03,000
think now the budget for this

5309
03:48:07,429 --> 03:48:04,739
independent study team is is very

5310
03:48:09,229 --> 03:48:07,439
consistent with any other of our

5311
03:48:11,030 --> 03:48:09,239
external review groups that we bring

5312
03:48:12,349 --> 03:48:11,040
into the science Mission director on an

5313
03:48:15,830 --> 03:48:12,359
annual basis so you know we have maybe

5314
03:48:17,090 --> 03:48:15,840
100 200 such groups entirely consistent

5315
03:48:19,070 --> 03:48:17,100
with that

5316
03:48:21,650 --> 03:48:19,080
also important to say going forward now

5317
03:48:24,050 --> 03:48:21,660
that NASA has not established a program

5318
03:48:25,910 --> 03:48:24,060
relative to UAP

5319
03:48:28,250 --> 03:48:25,920
and as a result there's no Associated

5320
03:48:30,590 --> 03:48:28,260
programmatic funding but this is how

5321
03:48:34,790 --> 03:48:30,600
NASA Works Federal budgeting is is a

5322
03:48:37,250 --> 03:48:34,800
complex uh journey of course and the way

5323
03:48:39,229 --> 03:48:37,260
NASA particularly NASA science likes to

5324
03:48:42,170 --> 03:48:39,239
work is we anticipate and weight

5325
03:48:44,690 --> 03:48:42,180
recommendations from independent groups

5326
03:48:46,670 --> 03:48:44,700
such as this one and we need to wait on

5327
03:48:48,769 --> 03:48:46,680
Final recommendations and and then we'll

5328
03:48:51,050 --> 03:48:48,779
make an assessment so too early to say

5329
03:48:53,150 --> 03:48:51,060
but of course that's all couched in the

5330
03:48:54,469 --> 03:48:53,160
fact that Federal budgeting is a very

5331
03:48:57,229 --> 03:48:54,479
complex process and we will always

5332
03:49:03,110 --> 03:49:00,950
all right we're making good time we have

5333
03:49:06,010 --> 03:49:03,120
uh one more question that that

5334
03:49:09,950 --> 03:49:06,020
accomplished many of the ones we got

5335
03:49:12,590 --> 03:49:09,960
which is has NASA encountered any aliens

5336
03:49:14,510 --> 03:49:12,600
or extraterrestrial life what happens if

5337
03:49:18,469 --> 03:49:14,520
the public comes across extraterrestrial

5338
03:49:20,389 --> 03:49:18,479
life what would NASA do if extra

5339
03:49:21,889 --> 03:49:20,399
terrestrial life was discovered what

5340
03:49:23,510 --> 03:49:21,899
would NASA study or do if

5341
03:49:24,590 --> 03:49:23,520
extraterrestrial night was discovered

5342
03:49:26,330 --> 03:49:24,600
now

5343
03:49:28,370 --> 03:49:26,340
I think it's worth making a distinction

5344
03:49:30,469 --> 03:49:28,380
that they're when we talk about

5345
03:49:32,570 --> 03:49:30,479
extraterrestrial life we do have a study

5346
03:49:34,729 --> 03:49:32,580
within NASA of astrobiology which is not

5347
03:49:36,050 --> 03:49:34,739
intelligent life necessarily and so I

5348
03:49:37,190 --> 03:49:36,060
invite you as you answer this question

5349
03:49:39,710 --> 03:49:37,200
to

5350
03:49:41,090 --> 03:49:39,720
who may clear the distinctions as you

5351
03:49:43,330 --> 03:49:41,100
are talking

5352
03:49:47,630 --> 03:49:43,340
um uh in terms of

5353
03:49:48,889 --> 03:49:47,640
uaps as well as any astrobiology work

5354
03:49:51,290 --> 03:49:48,899
that we do

5355
03:49:55,370 --> 03:49:51,300
I would start by saying one of NASA's

5356
03:49:59,990 --> 03:49:55,380
big questions is is there life out there

5357
03:50:02,269 --> 03:50:00,000
right and a lot of what NASA is doing

5358
03:50:05,929 --> 03:50:02,279
in its exploration of the solar system

5359
03:50:07,670 --> 03:50:05,939
and beyond is focused on

5360
03:50:09,530 --> 03:50:07,680
searching for life in any form

5361
03:50:11,870 --> 03:50:09,540
extraterrestrial life

5362
03:50:15,290 --> 03:50:11,880
I think one of the things we have

5363
03:50:16,849 --> 03:50:15,300
learned in the past 20 years is planets

5364
03:50:19,250 --> 03:50:16,859
are common we knew of course about the

5365
03:50:21,650 --> 03:50:19,260
planets in our solar system but we now

5366
03:50:24,290 --> 03:50:21,660
know there are lots of planets out there

5367
03:50:25,969 --> 03:50:24,300
so there are lots of potential

5368
03:50:29,210 --> 03:50:25,979
environments for life

5369
03:50:30,950 --> 03:50:29,220
and I think one of the most fascinating

5370
03:50:33,710 --> 03:50:30,960
questions is

5371
03:50:36,650 --> 03:50:33,720
do any of those planets host life

5372
03:50:39,229 --> 03:50:36,660
and that's uh something that NASA is

5373
03:50:40,250 --> 03:50:39,239
trying to address in a host of different

5374
03:50:44,570 --> 03:50:40,260
ways

5375
03:50:47,450 --> 03:50:44,580
whether it's probes that are landing on

5376
03:50:49,550 --> 03:50:47,460
planets or designing missions that will

5377
03:50:50,990 --> 03:50:49,560
look for signatures of life around other

5378
03:50:53,450 --> 03:50:51,000
planets so

5379
03:50:55,010 --> 03:50:53,460
the search for life is a really

5380
03:50:57,229 --> 03:50:55,020
important theme

5381
03:50:59,570 --> 03:50:57,239
we haven't found life beyond Earth yet

5382
03:51:01,309 --> 03:50:59,580
right I mean let's be clear about this

5383
03:51:02,929 --> 03:51:01,319
we haven't found it yet

5384
03:51:04,849 --> 03:51:02,939
but we're looking

5385
03:51:07,309 --> 03:51:04,859
and we're looking for it in lots of

5386
03:51:10,250 --> 03:51:07,319
different ways and you know

5387
03:51:13,250 --> 03:51:10,260
David was discussing techno signatures

5388
03:51:15,469 --> 03:51:13,260
as one way that we can work both within

5389
03:51:17,330 --> 03:51:15,479
our solar system and beyond and there's

5390
03:51:19,969 --> 03:51:17,340
so there's a lot a lot of different

5391
03:51:21,010 --> 03:51:19,979
elements I think of this potential

5392
03:51:22,849 --> 03:51:21,020
search

5393
03:51:26,030 --> 03:51:22,859
and

5394
03:51:28,130 --> 03:51:26,040
um you know just to go back to

5395
03:51:30,349 --> 03:51:28,140
something sort of those phrase in an

5396
03:51:32,150 --> 03:51:30,359
earlier question you know isn't NASA

5397
03:51:34,849 --> 03:51:32,160
hiding anything about this

5398
03:51:36,950 --> 03:51:34,859
no this is actually what you know

5399
03:51:39,290 --> 03:51:36,960
answering this question is one of the

5400
03:51:41,570 --> 03:51:39,300
things that NASA is an agency is is

5401
03:51:45,110 --> 03:51:41,580
excited about it's what's something that

5402
03:51:48,349 --> 03:51:45,120
lots of scientists working with NASA are

5403
03:51:51,889 --> 03:51:48,359
excited about is is this question of uh

5404
03:51:54,050 --> 03:51:51,899
is there life out there you know and I

5405
03:51:57,110 --> 03:51:54,060
think one of the things that

5406
03:51:58,910 --> 03:51:57,120
makes this question of are we alone such

5407
03:52:01,309 --> 03:51:58,920
a central question

5408
03:52:04,490 --> 03:52:01,319
not just the scientific Community it's a

5409
03:52:06,229 --> 03:52:04,500
central question I think for the public

5410
03:52:08,510 --> 03:52:06,239
um I suspect there are more people

5411
03:52:12,050 --> 03:52:08,520
watching this than the typical episode

5412
03:52:15,229 --> 03:52:12,060
of NASA TV right and this is something

5413
03:52:17,690 --> 03:52:15,239
where we will have me you know media

5414
03:52:19,969 --> 03:52:17,700
coming to the press conference

5415
03:52:22,910 --> 03:52:19,979
because these questions touch on

5416
03:52:25,550 --> 03:52:22,920
something that I think is really a deep

5417
03:52:33,290 --> 03:52:25,560
question for Humanity

5418
03:52:39,050 --> 03:52:36,830
yeah just a kind of echo what David said

5419
03:52:41,570 --> 03:52:39,060
a bit I mean obviously this is something

5420
03:52:43,969 --> 03:52:41,580
uh we think a lot about in astrobiology

5421
03:52:47,630 --> 03:52:43,979
what you know what if we succeed

5422
03:52:50,269 --> 03:52:47,640
um and uh you know we are very driven uh

5423
03:52:52,969 --> 03:52:50,279
to try to find uh real evidence of

5424
03:52:55,610 --> 03:52:52,979
extraterrestrial life and

5425
03:52:57,889 --> 03:52:55,620
um we would be highly driven to share

5426
03:52:59,750 --> 03:52:57,899
that if we found it

5427
03:53:01,610 --> 03:52:59,760
um because everyone wants to show that

5428
03:53:03,250 --> 03:53:01,620
they've been able to succeed in what

5429
03:53:06,349 --> 03:53:03,260
they're trying to do and and you know

5430
03:53:08,750 --> 03:53:06,359
one perhaps illustrative example is to

5431
03:53:10,670 --> 03:53:08,760
think about what happened when we came

5432
03:53:13,790 --> 03:53:10,680
close when NASA thought maybe they had

5433
03:53:15,590 --> 03:53:13,800
discovered extraterrestrial life and and

5434
03:53:19,010 --> 03:53:15,600
um a big event actually in the history

5435
03:53:20,990 --> 03:53:19,020
of astrobiology was in in the 1990s when

5436
03:53:22,790 --> 03:53:21,000
some scientists had thought that they

5437
03:53:25,250 --> 03:53:22,800
had discovered fossils in a meteorite

5438
03:53:26,750 --> 03:53:25,260
that came from Mars

5439
03:53:29,389 --> 03:53:26,760
um and

5440
03:53:30,950 --> 03:53:29,399
what happens is you don't announce it

5441
03:53:32,030 --> 03:53:30,960
immediately you make sure that you try

5442
03:53:33,170 --> 03:53:32,040
to make sure you're right because you

5443
03:53:34,670 --> 03:53:33,180
don't also don't want to have false

5444
03:53:36,110 --> 03:53:34,680
alarms and announce something where and

5445
03:53:38,210 --> 03:53:36,120
then you go oops sorry we were wrong

5446
03:53:40,849 --> 03:53:38,220
that was a mistaken analysis but what

5447
03:53:43,130 --> 03:53:40,859
happened was when the when

5448
03:53:44,450 --> 03:53:43,140
the scientists were sure they were right

5449
03:53:46,309 --> 03:53:44,460
then

5450
03:53:48,050 --> 03:53:46,319
um there was a big

5451
03:53:50,150 --> 03:53:48,060
um in fact presidential press conference

5452
03:53:53,030 --> 03:53:50,160
with President Clinton and NASA and it

5453
03:53:54,889 --> 03:53:53,040
was a big Public Announcement and

5454
03:53:56,750 --> 03:53:54,899
um that's what would happen if we

5455
03:53:58,790 --> 03:53:56,760
discovered something we would try to

5456
03:54:01,429 --> 03:53:58,800
make sure we were right and then we

5457
03:54:02,690 --> 03:54:01,439
would very proudly and loudly let the

5458
03:54:04,309 --> 03:54:02,700
public know about it

5459
03:54:06,650 --> 03:54:04,319
thanks we've just one minute left so

5460
03:54:08,330 --> 03:54:06,660
I'll let you finish up yeah thank you um

5461
03:54:11,750 --> 03:54:08,340
the only thing I wanted to add I

5462
03:54:13,910 --> 03:54:11,760
wouldn't at all liken it to um alien or

5463
03:54:16,429 --> 03:54:13,920
extraterrestrial life but in

5464
03:54:19,010 --> 03:54:16,439
astrobiology and exobiology you know

5465
03:54:22,130 --> 03:54:19,020
there is the exploration of our planet

5466
03:54:24,050 --> 03:54:22,140
as an analog for what might be found

5467
03:54:25,969 --> 03:54:24,060
on other worlds

5468
03:54:28,250 --> 03:54:25,979
um you know and what what is extreme

5469
03:54:30,530 --> 03:54:28,260
cold what is extreme heat

5470
03:54:32,330 --> 03:54:30,540
um a volcano A black smoker at the

5471
03:54:34,309 --> 03:54:32,340
bottom of the ocean what lives there and

5472
03:54:36,410 --> 03:54:34,319
how's that even possible and things we

5473
03:54:38,689 --> 03:54:36,420
still discover throughout our ocean

5474
03:54:40,010 --> 03:54:38,699
might look alien to a lot of people

5475
03:54:42,530 --> 03:54:40,020
right

5476
03:54:44,570 --> 03:54:42,540
um and we keep discovering new species

5477
03:54:47,510 --> 03:54:44,580
of different things whether they be

5478
03:54:50,929 --> 03:54:47,520
microbes or algae or you know

5479
03:54:53,630 --> 03:54:50,939
charismatic Mega fauna whatever they are

5480
03:54:55,849 --> 03:54:53,640
um but there are synergies I know there

5481
03:54:57,590 --> 03:54:55,859
was an initiative years ago at Nasa

5482
03:55:00,830 --> 03:54:57,600
called oceans across the solar system

5483
03:55:02,809 --> 03:55:00,840
and the idea was could our own Earth's

5484
03:55:04,490 --> 03:55:02,819
ocean be used in the life within it as

5485
03:55:06,650 --> 03:55:04,500
an analog for what might be discovered

5486
03:55:08,809 --> 03:55:06,660
elsewhere so I think that's an example

5487
03:55:10,670 --> 03:55:08,819
of a potential Synergy of

5488
03:55:13,729 --> 03:55:10,680
interdisciplinary science research

5489
03:55:15,170 --> 03:55:13,739
observations Etc collection of data and

5490
03:55:16,910 --> 03:55:15,180
information gathering that could be

5491
03:55:18,769 --> 03:55:16,920
useful in the future

5492
03:55:23,850 --> 03:55:18,779
thank you all so much I will hand it

5493
03:55:23,860 --> 03:55:29,689
[Applause]

5494
03:55:34,849 --> 03:55:32,450
so let me also just answer the one other

5495
03:55:37,130 --> 03:55:34,859
piece of that question was what do you

5496
03:55:38,570 --> 03:55:37,140
do if you see something surprising right

5497
03:55:41,210 --> 03:55:38,580
where do you report

5498
03:55:43,309 --> 03:55:41,220
and this is something where just to come

5499
03:55:47,689 --> 03:55:43,319
back to something I mentioned my opening

5500
03:55:49,490 --> 03:55:47,699
remarks the aaro is the our lead Agency

5501
03:55:51,650 --> 03:55:49,500
for uaps

5502
03:55:54,650 --> 03:55:51,660
and while we've talked about origin you

5503
03:55:57,290 --> 03:55:54,660
know life in this context

5504
03:55:59,750 --> 03:55:57,300
most uaps

5505
03:56:01,729 --> 03:55:59,760
I think when women looks at the data in

5506
03:56:03,710 --> 03:56:01,739
more detail are going to turn out to be

5507
03:56:05,929 --> 03:56:03,720
phenomenal we understand we saw this

5508
03:56:10,070 --> 03:56:05,939
with some of the balloons or or

5509
03:56:13,309 --> 03:56:10,080
commercial Jets we saw those examples

5510
03:56:16,670 --> 03:56:13,319
some uaps and we saw this with the

5511
03:56:18,889 --> 03:56:16,680
Chinese balloon that flew over is

5512
03:56:20,389 --> 03:56:18,899
something an issue sometimes of National

5513
03:56:22,429 --> 03:56:20,399
Security

5514
03:56:23,630 --> 03:56:22,439
so we actually do want to encourage

5515
03:56:25,490 --> 03:56:23,640
people

5516
03:56:27,469 --> 03:56:25,500
just from that angle

5517
03:56:29,809 --> 03:56:27,479
to report it

5518
03:56:32,870 --> 03:56:29,819
so you know uh

5519
03:56:34,790 --> 03:56:32,880
since uh to before it will transition to

5520
03:56:37,010 --> 03:56:34,800
summary that's what I answered on that

5521
03:56:38,450 --> 03:56:37,020
question that you know to keep in mind

5522
03:56:42,410 --> 03:56:38,460
that

5523
03:56:45,110 --> 03:56:42,420
um you know the aaros role is to be the

5524
03:56:46,070 --> 03:56:45,120
prime source for understanding those

5525
03:56:49,370 --> 03:56:46,080
things

5526
03:56:51,410 --> 03:56:49,380
and what our charges is to think about

5527
03:56:54,889 --> 03:56:51,420
what's NASA's role

5528
03:56:57,769 --> 03:56:54,899
and I think NASA you know and this is

5529
03:56:59,689 --> 03:56:57,779
something you know we'll con I want to

5530
03:57:02,750 --> 03:56:59,699
now go back to discussion we didn't have

5531
03:57:05,150 --> 03:57:02,760
that much time for it to to come back to

5532
03:57:07,130 --> 03:57:05,160
you know what we each you know what we

5533
03:57:08,570 --> 03:57:07,140
see as NASA's role

5534
03:57:10,309 --> 03:57:08,580
in this

5535
03:57:12,590 --> 03:57:10,319
um I think one world piece we've talked

5536
03:57:16,370 --> 03:57:12,600
about is

5537
03:57:18,950 --> 03:57:16,380
be uh NASA can help remove the stigma

5538
03:57:20,510 --> 03:57:18,960
NASA can draw more of the scientific

5539
03:57:23,750 --> 03:57:20,520
community in

5540
03:57:26,570 --> 03:57:23,760
and I think what NASA could help do is

5541
03:57:29,870 --> 03:57:26,580
provide standards of high data quality

5542
03:57:32,090 --> 03:57:29,880
I think one of the things that many of

5543
03:57:33,889 --> 03:57:32,100
us who've come you know not looked at

5544
03:57:35,150 --> 03:57:33,899
this before I'd certainly put myself in

5545
03:57:39,710 --> 03:57:35,160
this group

5546
03:57:42,530 --> 03:57:39,720
it was struck by the limited nature of

5547
03:57:44,210 --> 03:57:42,540
the data that many events had uh

5548
03:57:46,189 --> 03:57:44,220
insufficient data

5549
03:57:48,889 --> 03:57:46,199
and that in order to get a better

5550
03:57:51,170 --> 03:57:48,899
understanding we will need to have you

5551
03:57:53,150 --> 03:57:51,180
know high quality data data where we

5552
03:57:56,450 --> 03:57:53,160
understand it's provenance

5553
03:57:58,910 --> 03:57:56,460
data from multiple sensors and I think

5554
03:58:02,030 --> 03:57:58,920
one of the things that uh you know even

5555
03:58:04,370 --> 03:58:02,040
from the same sensor as we saw

5556
03:58:06,710 --> 03:58:04,380
you know in Josh's analysis you know

5557
03:58:08,990 --> 03:58:06,720
also an event trance showed us when you

5558
03:58:12,110 --> 03:58:09,000
can observe event over time

5559
03:58:14,030 --> 03:58:12,120
and get velocity information that gives

5560
03:58:15,590 --> 03:58:14,040
you a lot of additional information so

5561
03:58:17,809 --> 03:58:15,600
we're going to want things with high

5562
03:58:20,689 --> 03:58:17,819
frame rate we're going to want things

5563
03:58:23,510 --> 03:58:20,699
from multiple perspectives

5564
03:58:25,070 --> 03:58:23,520
um and uh you know so I I think those

5565
03:58:27,590 --> 03:58:25,080
are all going to be pieces of things

5566
03:58:29,450 --> 03:58:27,600
that we want to think about

5567
03:58:33,050 --> 03:58:29,460
um

5568
03:58:36,010 --> 03:58:33,060
I think this is an opportunity for

5569
03:58:39,110 --> 03:58:36,020
citizen science I think if

5570
03:58:41,269 --> 03:58:39,120
we can come up with recommendations in

5571
03:58:43,070 --> 03:58:41,279
our roadmap that point to ways in which

5572
03:58:46,070 --> 03:58:43,080
we could collect it people can collect

5573
03:58:48,410 --> 03:58:46,080
data I remain a big fan of these things

5574
03:58:50,030 --> 03:58:48,420
they do take over our lives too much but

5575
03:58:53,210 --> 03:58:50,040
they are

5576
03:58:54,650 --> 03:58:53,220
um fabulous data collectors of and I

5577
03:58:57,349 --> 03:58:54,660
don't know there's something like three

5578
03:58:59,170 --> 03:58:57,359
four billion of them that are on the

5579
03:59:02,110 --> 03:58:59,180
planet and

5580
03:59:06,349 --> 03:59:02,120
NASA I think has the

5581
03:59:08,870 --> 03:59:06,359
Prestige and visibility to develop uh an

5582
03:59:12,830 --> 03:59:08,880
app or work with companies to develop

5583
03:59:16,250 --> 03:59:12,840
apps that could collect data in a

5584
03:59:19,790 --> 03:59:16,260
uniform and centralized way

5585
03:59:22,250 --> 03:59:19,800
um that I think will you know most the

5586
03:59:27,170 --> 03:59:22,260
stuff that's collected is going to turn

5587
03:59:28,670 --> 03:59:27,180
out to be commercial planes balloons uh

5588
03:59:29,990 --> 03:59:28,680
when you have multiple cameras you can

5589
03:59:31,849 --> 03:59:30,000
eliminate some of the optical

5590
03:59:33,710 --> 03:59:31,859
limitations of ghosting and those

5591
03:59:37,150 --> 03:59:33,720
effects

5592
03:59:39,830 --> 03:59:37,160
um some of them will almost certainly be

5593
03:59:43,969 --> 03:59:39,840
novel physical phenomena

5594
03:59:45,590 --> 03:59:43,979
right I think it is uh we have learned a

5595
03:59:46,910 --> 03:59:45,600
lot about our planet and how the

5596
03:59:49,010 --> 03:59:46,920
universe works

5597
03:59:51,950 --> 03:59:49,020
there's a lot we don't know

5598
03:59:54,650 --> 03:59:51,960
right I think yeah you know as

5599
03:59:56,150 --> 03:59:54,660
as scientists what is the most exciting

5600
03:59:58,429 --> 03:59:56,160
thing

5601
04:00:02,150 --> 03:59:58,439
is the surprises

5602
04:00:04,250 --> 04:00:02,160
and I think that there are things that

5603
04:00:05,870 --> 04:00:04,260
continue to surprise us about our own

5604
04:00:08,929 --> 04:00:05,880
Planet there's phenomenon in our

5605
04:00:11,570 --> 04:00:08,939
atmosphere in the atmosphere that we

5606
04:00:13,309 --> 04:00:11,580
probably haven't seen yet or perhaps

5607
04:00:17,870 --> 04:00:13,319
we've seen and not

5608
04:00:19,670 --> 04:00:17,880
noticed yet right in this I I think uh a

5609
04:00:21,530 --> 04:00:19,680
long history in science when you look

5610
04:00:25,070 --> 04:00:21,540
back and you realize

5611
04:00:27,469 --> 04:00:25,080
that this in Discovery had a

5612
04:00:30,469 --> 04:00:27,479
pre-discovery so people had seen

5613
04:00:32,170 --> 04:00:30,479
something before and we're missing it

5614
04:00:34,969 --> 04:00:32,180
and

5615
04:00:37,370 --> 04:00:34,979
those pre-discoveries were not of note

5616
04:00:40,550 --> 04:00:37,380
because often because

5617
04:00:42,830 --> 04:00:40,560
we had biases occasions and data quality

5618
04:00:46,189 --> 04:00:42,840
and uh

5619
04:00:50,090 --> 04:00:46,199
you know one of the things I was taught

5620
04:00:52,429 --> 04:00:50,100
is uh when you have a question you don't

5621
04:00:54,170 --> 04:00:52,439
know how to answer you start by getting

5622
04:00:56,809 --> 04:00:54,180
better data

5623
04:00:59,750 --> 04:00:56,819
and uh you know I

5624
04:01:02,450 --> 04:00:59,760
uh were coming you know I get to do the

5625
04:01:06,170 --> 04:01:02,460
summary and as the chair I get to

5626
04:01:07,189 --> 04:01:06,180
you know summarize a conclusion and

5627
04:01:10,370 --> 04:01:07,199
um

5628
04:01:11,450 --> 04:01:10,380
we need better data would be my my

5629
04:01:14,330 --> 04:01:11,460
takeaway

5630
04:01:18,650 --> 04:01:14,340
and we need more uniform data

5631
04:01:21,889 --> 04:01:18,660
and since I'm so proud of my Haystack

5632
04:01:24,050 --> 04:01:21,899
we need to be able to understand what's

5633
04:01:26,689 --> 04:01:24,060
in the haystack and it's

5634
04:01:29,170 --> 04:01:26,699
a lot more complicated than a haystack

5635
04:01:32,630 --> 04:01:29,180
in a sense right as you know it's got

5636
04:01:36,410 --> 04:01:32,640
commercial planes it's got you know

5637
04:01:38,870 --> 04:01:36,420
drones and you know I think uh the

5638
04:01:40,070 --> 04:01:38,880
number of drones out there is large and

5639
04:01:42,110 --> 04:01:40,080
growing

5640
04:01:44,150 --> 04:01:42,120
and will be a continual source of

5641
04:01:44,809 --> 04:01:44,160
confusion

5642
04:01:47,330 --> 04:01:44,819
um

5643
04:01:49,790 --> 04:01:47,340
we were charged to think about air

5644
04:01:51,469 --> 04:01:49,800
safety you know understanding and

5645
04:01:53,510 --> 04:01:51,479
characterizing seeing what's going on

5646
04:01:57,170 --> 04:01:53,520
with drones is also I think going to be

5647
04:02:00,170 --> 04:01:57,180
an important air safety issue

5648
04:02:03,469 --> 04:02:00,180
um so we'll need to uh

5649
04:02:06,110 --> 04:02:03,479
you know to understand the unknown or

5650
04:02:08,469 --> 04:02:06,120
start to study the unknown another

5651
04:02:10,670 --> 04:02:08,479
important piece is always going to be

5652
04:02:12,650 --> 04:02:10,680
characterizing the known

5653
04:02:16,790 --> 04:02:12,660
really well

5654
04:02:19,849 --> 04:02:16,800
and um you know this is the part I think

5655
04:02:20,809 --> 04:02:19,859
of a lot of science that seems dry and

5656
04:02:24,590 --> 04:02:20,819
boring

5657
04:02:28,010 --> 04:02:24,600
but it's calibration and understanding

5658
04:02:31,389 --> 04:02:28,020
the events you expect to see

5659
04:02:34,550 --> 04:02:31,399
um you know in thinking about this area

5660
04:02:37,490 --> 04:02:34,560
uh one of the groups of people that

5661
04:02:39,830 --> 04:02:37,500
people talk to are particle physicists

5662
04:02:41,929 --> 04:02:39,840
doing experiments at CERN

5663
04:02:45,349 --> 04:02:41,939
where they go through the effort of

5664
04:02:46,610 --> 04:02:45,359
finding extremely rare events to find

5665
04:02:49,550 --> 04:02:46,620
new particles

5666
04:02:52,070 --> 04:02:49,560
and in order to do that you need to

5667
04:02:53,990 --> 04:02:52,080
understand the standard predictions well

5668
04:02:55,010 --> 04:02:54,000
so I think another part of the whole

5669
04:02:57,769 --> 04:02:55,020
story

5670
04:02:59,510 --> 04:02:57,779
and I know this is something Aro is

5671
04:03:01,370 --> 04:02:59,520
working hard on in the context of

5672
04:03:04,370 --> 04:03:01,380
military it's like you've got to

5673
04:03:07,570 --> 04:03:04,380
characterize what you the known Things

5674
04:03:11,570 --> 04:03:07,580
Are you know when you've got that

5675
04:03:15,050 --> 04:03:11,580
F-35 flying past a balloon what does it

5676
04:03:18,849 --> 04:03:15,060
see what does it see at Sunset what does

5677
04:03:21,110 --> 04:03:18,859
it see in odd observing angles and that

5678
04:03:24,229 --> 04:03:21,120
characterizing the normal

5679
04:03:26,750 --> 04:03:24,239
is an essential thing to do to

5680
04:03:28,429 --> 04:03:26,760
understand what's out there

5681
04:03:31,969 --> 04:03:28,439
so let me

5682
04:03:34,610 --> 04:03:31,979
conclude the session by thanking the

5683
04:03:35,870 --> 04:03:34,620
panelists it's been a pleasure learning

5684
04:03:39,710 --> 04:03:35,880
from you

5685
04:03:42,229 --> 04:03:39,720
thanking our uh Sean and and our other

5686
04:03:45,110 --> 04:03:42,239
invited speakers and our our that we've

5687
04:03:47,689 --> 04:03:45,120
had we've had for uh some of our data

5688
04:03:49,610 --> 04:03:47,699
collection sessions uh we've learned a

5689
04:03:53,030 --> 04:03:49,620
tremendous amount from you

5690
04:03:54,969 --> 04:03:53,040
and also thank the public for their

5691
04:03:57,830 --> 04:03:54,979
engagement so I think we were all

5692
04:03:59,750 --> 04:03:57,840
impressed by the the number and level

5693
04:04:01,309 --> 04:03:59,760
and sophistication of the questions

5694
04:04:04,309 --> 04:04:01,319
people sent in

5695
04:04:05,809 --> 04:04:04,319
we try to address as many as them that

5696
04:04:09,729 --> 04:04:05,819
we could in the session

5697
04:04:12,349 --> 04:04:09,739
as you've heard NASA through

5698
04:04:13,990 --> 04:04:12,359
science.nasa.gov will provide there'll

5699
04:04:16,729 --> 04:04:14,000
be some additional answers provided

5700
04:04:17,809 --> 04:04:16,739
encourage you to go there

5701
04:04:20,330 --> 04:04:17,819
ah

5702
04:04:24,469 --> 04:04:20,340
actually is a non-nasa employee I'll put

5703
04:04:27,110 --> 04:04:24,479
in a little ad for science.nasa.gov

5704
04:04:29,150 --> 04:04:27,120
NASA does amazing things

5705
04:04:30,590 --> 04:04:29,160
and we're learning amazing things about

5706
04:04:33,769 --> 04:04:30,600
the universe

5707
04:04:34,990 --> 04:04:33,779
and our planet and just encourage you to

5708
04:04:37,309 --> 04:04:35,000
go there

5709
04:04:40,250 --> 04:04:37,319
and uh

5710
04:04:52,890 --> 04:04:40,260
continue to learn and continue to

5711
04:04:52,900 --> 04:04:58,729
[Music]

5712
04:05:15,050 --> 04:05:01,880
we are going

5713
04:05:18,469 --> 04:05:16,969
just real quick two things that really

5714
04:05:20,630 --> 04:05:18,479
annoyed the heck out of me I I don't

5715
04:05:23,090 --> 04:05:20,640
know the names of the folks but the one

5716
04:05:24,110 --> 04:05:23,100
woman said

5717
04:05:27,650 --> 04:05:24,120
foreign

5718
04:05:29,030 --> 04:05:27,660
yeah thanks Xavier unmuted um two things

5719
04:05:30,710 --> 04:05:29,040
that really bothered me the one woman

5720
04:05:33,110 --> 04:05:30,720
who said basically you know life is

5721
04:05:35,330 --> 04:05:33,120
boring you know life is life isn't as

5722
04:05:37,969 --> 04:05:35,340
exciting as you think in other words you

5723
04:05:40,309 --> 04:05:37,979
know suggesting that

5724
04:05:43,490 --> 04:05:40,319
we want this to be non-human technology

5725
04:05:48,229 --> 04:05:43,500
you know we're we're so wanting to have

5726
04:05:51,170 --> 04:05:48,239
our lives it you know be more exciting

5727
04:05:53,269 --> 04:05:51,180
that you know we're turning this into a

5728
04:05:55,610 --> 04:05:53,279
non-human intelligence issue when that's

5729
04:05:56,809 --> 04:05:55,620
really not the case and that was that's

5730
04:05:59,330 --> 04:05:56,819
offensive

5731
04:06:01,969 --> 04:05:59,340
no it's something

5732
04:06:04,250 --> 04:06:01,979
that can it be explained and we listen

5733
04:06:06,290 --> 04:06:04,260
to Witnesses and it certainly appears to

5734
04:06:08,809 --> 04:06:06,300
be non-human and then the other thing

5735
04:06:11,170 --> 04:06:08,819
the other guy said that

5736
04:06:12,830 --> 04:06:11,180
um extraordinary evidence requires

5737
04:06:14,809 --> 04:06:12,840
extraordinary claims require

5738
04:06:16,969 --> 04:06:14,819
extraordinary evidence which I hear

5739
04:06:19,370 --> 04:06:16,979
we've heard that all the time it's so

5740
04:06:20,990 --> 04:06:19,380
annoying it's like no science does not

5741
04:06:22,550 --> 04:06:21,000
work like that and Gary Nolan pointed

5742
04:06:25,070 --> 04:06:22,560
this out too

5743
04:06:27,410 --> 04:06:25,080
you know an extraordinary claim it's

5744
04:06:30,050 --> 04:06:27,420
just a claim let's see the evidence and

5745
04:06:32,150 --> 04:06:30,060
we have a lot of evidence that points in

5746
04:06:35,030 --> 04:06:32,160
the direction that whatever is

5747
04:06:36,469 --> 04:06:35,040
interacting with us is non-human um we

5748
04:06:38,630 --> 04:06:36,479
don't have the proof we don't have the

5749
04:06:40,849 --> 04:06:38,640
public evidence most of it's anecdotal

5750
04:06:43,429 --> 04:06:40,859
publicly and the videos that are put out

5751
04:06:45,530 --> 04:06:43,439
publicly are not great the three videos

5752
04:06:48,050 --> 04:06:45,540
we have are okay

5753
04:06:50,689 --> 04:06:48,060
but supposedly there are amazing videos

5754
04:06:52,849 --> 04:06:50,699
out out there that will prove and the

5755
04:06:55,010 --> 04:06:52,859
government has them classified that will

5756
04:06:56,330 --> 04:06:55,020
prove that we're dealing with something

5757
04:06:58,849 --> 04:06:56,340
anomalous

5758
04:07:02,630 --> 04:06:58,859
with technology that is so far beyond

5759
04:07:03,290 --> 04:07:02,640
what we know we have publicly

5760
04:07:05,269 --> 04:07:03,300
um

5761
04:07:07,510 --> 04:07:05,279
and then the next step would be all

5762
04:07:10,309 --> 04:07:07,520
right is it non-human and that's why

5763
04:07:11,870 --> 04:07:10,319
whistleblowers if they exist as we've

5764
04:07:14,750 --> 04:07:11,880
heard and they have information about

5765
04:07:16,550 --> 04:07:14,760
crash retrievals that is so important to

5766
04:07:18,950 --> 04:07:16,560
take it to the next level who cares

5767
04:07:21,889 --> 04:07:18,960
about lights in the sky if we have craft

5768
04:07:23,269 --> 04:07:21,899
and bodies and we have we have witnesses

5769
04:07:25,490 --> 04:07:23,279
and I don't know if those Witnesses are

5770
04:07:28,010 --> 04:07:25,500
going to be saying that but if we have

5771
04:07:30,410 --> 04:07:28,020
solid evidence that there are pieces of

5772
04:07:32,750 --> 04:07:30,420
craft or full intact craft that we

5773
04:07:34,790 --> 04:07:32,760
cannot understand that's going to just

5774
04:07:37,309 --> 04:07:34,800
Propel this so much further than we are

5775
04:07:39,950 --> 04:07:37,319
now and just obliterate anything that

5776
04:07:41,570 --> 04:07:39,960
will get from sightings now the next

5777
04:07:43,250 --> 04:07:41,580
step would be okay what are they and

5778
04:07:45,229 --> 04:07:43,260
what are they here for that's a totally

5779
04:07:47,389 --> 04:07:45,239
separate issue that's going to be

5780
04:07:50,150 --> 04:07:47,399
really hard to figure out unless there's

5781
04:07:51,889 --> 04:07:50,160
data that's been collected that you know

5782
04:07:54,769 --> 04:07:51,899
they've figured out some things that are

5783
04:07:56,809 --> 04:07:54,779
going on and whether it's ET Ultra

5784
04:07:58,790 --> 04:07:56,819
terrestrial Time Travelers any of that

5785
04:08:01,250 --> 04:07:58,800
stuff we don't know you know and they

5786
04:08:03,050 --> 04:08:01,260
mentioned extraterrestrial again during

5787
04:08:04,910 --> 04:08:03,060
this hearing and I wish they would stop

5788
04:08:06,849 --> 04:08:04,920
that's what was so good about one of the

5789
04:08:09,650 --> 04:08:06,859
public questions where they said

5790
04:08:11,450 --> 04:08:09,660
non-human intelligence you know even

5791
04:08:13,849 --> 04:08:11,460
then though I would say anomalous

5792
04:08:16,070 --> 04:08:13,859
activity anomalous technology we don't

5793
04:08:18,229 --> 04:08:16,080
know it's non-human I mean if it's us

5794
04:08:20,510 --> 04:08:18,239
from the future you know portraying

5795
04:08:22,250 --> 04:08:20,520
itself as non-human it could be that I

5796
04:08:25,729 --> 04:08:22,260
don't know so anomalous for me works

5797
04:08:28,070 --> 04:08:25,739
better in unexplicable unexplainable

5798
04:08:30,050 --> 04:08:28,080
um but the next step that's why

5799
04:08:35,510 --> 04:08:30,060
I hope

5800
04:08:39,349 --> 04:08:35,520
with whistleblowers and the 2023

5801
04:08:41,510 --> 04:08:39,359
timeline which is never in my mind it's

5802
04:08:44,150 --> 04:08:41,520
never a good idea to put a date on

5803
04:08:46,370 --> 04:08:44,160
anything because you never know what's

5804
04:08:49,189 --> 04:08:46,380
going to happen stuff happens stuff

5805
04:08:53,929 --> 04:08:49,199
happens so multiple people said 2023

5806
04:08:56,330 --> 04:08:53,939
Nolan Lou John um Ramirez Ramirez said

5807
04:08:58,309 --> 04:08:56,340
Labor Day Bob McGuire said Thanksgiving

5808
04:08:59,389 --> 04:08:58,319
government officials are going to come

5809
04:09:01,610 --> 04:08:59,399
out and make an announcement about

5810
04:09:03,469 --> 04:09:01,620
non-human intelligence Richard butt

5811
04:09:06,349 --> 04:09:03,479
who's supposedly an Intel person online

5812
04:09:08,150 --> 04:09:06,359
is on his um that's not his real name he

5813
04:09:10,490 --> 04:09:08,160
said by the end of the year so many

5814
04:09:12,889 --> 04:09:10,500
different people are saying things and

5815
04:09:15,889 --> 04:09:12,899
the date I mean stuff can happen that's

5816
04:09:19,670 --> 04:09:15,899
that derails plans so I would not just

5817
04:09:22,550 --> 04:09:19,680
put my hopes on 2023 eventually it will

5818
04:09:24,469 --> 04:09:22,560
get out and hopefully I'll be alive and

5819
04:09:25,910 --> 04:09:24,479
you'll be alive and we'll get to see it

5820
04:09:28,670 --> 04:09:25,920
so

5821
04:09:30,290 --> 04:09:28,680
um I'm not having expectations I refuse

5822
04:09:32,990 --> 04:09:30,300
to have expectations

5823
04:09:35,510 --> 04:09:33,000
for 2023. I was getting a little excited

5824
04:09:37,130 --> 04:09:35,520
about the alleged Washington Post

5825
04:09:38,990 --> 04:09:37,140
article because I heard it from so many

5826
04:09:40,490 --> 04:09:39,000
people but I don't know I don't know

5827
04:09:41,870 --> 04:09:40,500
what's going on with that you know I

5828
04:09:44,750 --> 04:09:41,880
don't know

5829
04:09:47,269 --> 04:09:44,760
I've heard mixed things so make of that

5830
04:09:50,689 --> 04:09:47,279
of what you will yes it's coming no it's

5831
04:09:52,370 --> 04:09:50,699
not it's like I don't know but 100 they

5832
04:09:54,050 --> 04:09:52,380
were working on an article I don't know

5833
04:09:56,090 --> 04:09:54,060
when that started

5834
04:09:57,410 --> 04:09:56,100
but it started to come out the last few

5835
04:09:59,809 --> 04:09:57,420
weeks that they were working on that

5836
04:10:02,630 --> 04:09:59,819
real quick NASA seems to be positioned

5837
04:10:06,110 --> 04:10:02,640
him positioning themselves to be able to

5838
04:10:08,510 --> 04:10:06,120
continue the UAP discussion in a in a

5839
04:10:09,889 --> 04:10:08,520
sorry I'm tired in an official capacity

5840
04:10:12,290 --> 04:10:09,899
whatever happens regarding

5841
04:10:14,269 --> 04:10:12,300
whistleblowers NASA now has a platform

5842
04:10:15,830 --> 04:10:14,279
in which to speak about it yeah and

5843
04:10:18,110 --> 04:10:15,840
they're conservative and a lot a lot of

5844
04:10:19,969 --> 04:10:18,120
them are ignorant about what we know and

5845
04:10:21,710 --> 04:10:19,979
some of them just don't you know some of

5846
04:10:22,729 --> 04:10:21,720
them reject the evidence that we've

5847
04:10:24,349 --> 04:10:22,739
heard

5848
04:10:26,269 --> 04:10:24,359
um they're brand new to this I think

5849
04:10:28,189 --> 04:10:26,279
some of them are scared because if it's

5850
04:10:30,349 --> 04:10:28,199
true or dealing with something non-human

5851
04:10:32,090 --> 04:10:30,359
you know the unknown that's a pretty

5852
04:10:34,070 --> 04:10:32,100
scary thing for people who are brand new

5853
04:10:35,870 --> 04:10:34,080
to this subject

5854
04:10:39,530 --> 04:10:35,880
um but

5855
04:10:41,450 --> 04:10:39,540
if some of these if we do get credible

5856
04:10:44,210 --> 04:10:41,460
evidence from multiple whistleblowers

5857
04:10:47,389 --> 04:10:44,220
that makes it clear that we have craft

5858
04:10:49,130 --> 04:10:47,399
then I'm really curious if we can you

5859
04:10:50,990 --> 04:10:49,140
know touch back and

5860
04:10:52,969 --> 04:10:51,000
go back to these people on this panel

5861
04:10:55,010 --> 04:10:52,979
and other folks and say what is your

5862
04:10:58,010 --> 04:10:55,020
opinion now I'd be really curious to see

5863
04:10:59,809 --> 04:10:58,020
how they handle that kind of information

5864
04:11:02,030 --> 04:10:59,819
so

5865
04:11:03,650 --> 04:11:02,040
Xavier says I don't think that has been

5866
04:11:05,389 --> 04:11:03,660
revealed they just released that it will

5867
04:11:07,250 --> 04:11:05,399
be presented in the upcoming conference

5868
04:11:09,950 --> 04:11:07,260
that's when we will get all the data and

5869
04:11:11,929 --> 04:11:09,960
have it on it and that's in response to

5870
04:11:15,650 --> 04:11:11,939
what you said

5871
04:11:20,510 --> 04:11:18,469
yeah the SCU mile long crash video photo

5872
04:11:22,250 --> 04:11:20,520
reveal at the conference which is coming

5873
04:11:25,309 --> 04:11:22,260
up in a couple of months I was planning

5874
04:11:27,290 --> 04:11:25,319
on driving to the east coast like I did

5875
04:11:30,290 --> 04:11:27,300
I have I don't know if I've ever spoken

5876
04:11:32,269 --> 04:11:30,300
in depth and I might have to stop right

5877
04:11:34,150 --> 04:11:32,279
now because cookie is struggling with

5878
04:11:38,689 --> 04:11:34,160
something let me grab them

5879
04:11:43,010 --> 04:11:40,910
oh

5880
04:11:45,050 --> 04:11:43,020
he has breathing issues like all small

5881
04:11:48,590 --> 04:11:45,060
dogs do

5882
04:11:55,189 --> 04:11:52,250
I went to I drove to the East Coast

5883
04:11:58,010 --> 04:11:55,199
last November

5884
04:12:01,729 --> 04:11:58,020
um to Huntsville Alabama

5885
04:12:03,769 --> 04:12:01,739
I met with Eric Davis for two days we

5886
04:12:05,689 --> 04:12:03,779
had like a dinner and breakfast and then

5887
04:12:08,150 --> 04:12:05,699
I met with Jay Stratton who's the former

5888
04:12:10,250 --> 04:12:08,160
head of the UAP task force and I met

5889
04:12:14,269 --> 04:12:10,260
with his wife too

5890
04:12:18,349 --> 04:12:16,370
and I also met with Michael Vai my

5891
04:12:20,210 --> 04:12:18,359
friend who I've interviewed and went to

5892
04:12:21,349 --> 04:12:20,220
his house hung out with him for a couple

5893
04:12:22,610 --> 04:12:21,359
of days

5894
04:12:23,269 --> 04:12:22,620
so yeah

5895
04:12:24,950 --> 04:12:23,279
um

5896
04:12:26,809 --> 04:12:24,960
had really good conversations but you

5897
04:12:28,849 --> 04:12:26,819
know I can't talk about it because

5898
04:12:30,290 --> 04:12:28,859
the benefit of going in person is you

5899
04:12:32,689 --> 04:12:30,300
can talk about stuff usually you would

5900
04:12:34,670 --> 04:12:32,699
not talk about online

5901
04:12:37,309 --> 04:12:34,680
or on the phone

5902
04:12:38,570 --> 04:12:37,319
don't I don't have any information that

5903
04:12:40,250 --> 04:12:38,580
explains what we're dealing with and

5904
04:12:42,229 --> 04:12:40,260
that's really what we all care about so

5905
04:12:44,269 --> 04:12:42,239
you know I don't have any block I did

5906
04:12:46,969 --> 04:12:44,279
not learn anything Blockbuster as far as

5907
04:12:48,710 --> 04:12:46,979
what it is intense because I don't think

5908
04:12:51,110 --> 04:12:48,720
any of these guys know there may be

5909
04:12:55,550 --> 04:12:51,120
people that know but

5910
04:12:59,269 --> 04:12:58,189
I would say higher up

5911
04:13:01,070 --> 04:12:59,279
um

5912
04:13:02,990 --> 04:13:01,080
like I said

5913
04:13:04,910 --> 04:13:03,000
a few months ago I said there are people

5914
04:13:07,070 --> 04:13:04,920
I heard there are people that do want to

5915
04:13:08,570 --> 04:13:07,080
give access to these programs a crash

5916
04:13:10,550 --> 04:13:08,580
retrieval program

5917
04:13:14,150 --> 04:13:10,560
but the people who have the final say

5918
04:13:17,210 --> 04:13:14,160
are saying no so

5919
04:13:21,290 --> 04:13:17,220
I don't know I don't think anybody in

5920
04:13:23,689 --> 04:13:21,300
congress has had access maybe maybe some

5921
04:13:27,889 --> 04:13:23,699
scientists

5922
04:13:29,809 --> 04:13:27,899
been read into the programs I don't know

5923
04:13:31,490 --> 04:13:29,819
you know I speculate Eric Davis has been

5924
04:13:34,189 --> 04:13:31,500
I don't think so but it could be he

5925
04:13:35,389 --> 04:13:34,199
wouldn't tell me if he had

5926
04:13:36,830 --> 04:13:35,399
um

5927
04:13:38,450 --> 04:13:36,840
one question how can they State the

5928
04:13:40,729 --> 04:13:38,460
absolute fact that they have never cut

5929
04:13:42,650 --> 04:13:40,739
the ISS feed in order to avoid publicly

5930
04:13:44,269 --> 04:13:42,660
filming an anomalous object I mean I've

5931
04:13:46,550 --> 04:13:44,279
seen objects that looked interesting and

5932
04:13:47,950 --> 04:13:46,560
then the feed was cut

5933
04:13:49,729 --> 04:13:47,960
um they don't want to feed into anything

5934
04:13:51,290 --> 04:13:49,739
conspiratorial so they're going to say

5935
04:13:53,450 --> 04:13:51,300
that I mean I don't know they may just

5936
04:13:56,150 --> 04:13:53,460
not know those folks you know NASA isn't

5937
04:13:58,490 --> 04:13:56,160
that panel people say NASA's lying those

5938
04:13:59,870 --> 04:13:58,500
folks are all lying well that's not NASA

5939
04:14:01,189 --> 04:13:59,880
those are individual people and they

5940
04:14:04,250 --> 04:14:01,199
were some really good speakers today

5941
04:14:06,290 --> 04:14:04,260
which I need to go over again

5942
04:14:07,610 --> 04:14:06,300
um the one lady with the nose ring she

5943
04:14:09,410 --> 04:14:07,620
had some really interesting things to

5944
04:14:12,050 --> 04:14:09,420
say that was like my for me that was the

5945
04:14:14,750 --> 04:14:12,060
highlight you know Kirkpatrick was fine

5946
04:14:16,729 --> 04:14:14,760
it's that's he's conservative

5947
04:14:18,170 --> 04:14:16,739
he's going to keep to what's publicly

5948
04:14:20,150 --> 04:14:18,180
available and not discuss anything

5949
04:14:21,469 --> 04:14:20,160
classified of course

5950
04:14:22,729 --> 04:14:21,479
so

5951
04:14:26,150 --> 04:14:22,739
you know

5952
04:14:28,490 --> 04:14:26,160
yeah definitely we have seen the feed

5953
04:14:29,630 --> 04:14:28,500
cut I don't know how many times for me

5954
04:14:31,729 --> 04:14:29,640
but I've definitely seen it cut

5955
04:14:33,530 --> 04:14:31,739
afterwards that I wasn't watching it

5956
04:14:35,630 --> 04:14:33,540
live but I saw videos beforehand or

5957
04:14:37,490 --> 04:14:35,640
afterwards interesting to note that the

5958
04:14:39,110 --> 04:14:37,500
chair mentioned that NASA also had a

5959
04:14:40,429 --> 04:14:39,120
good working relationship with the UAP

5960
04:14:43,370 --> 04:14:40,439
task force

5961
04:14:45,110 --> 04:14:43,380
so presumably Travis Taylor and Stratton

5962
04:14:46,849 --> 04:14:45,120
would would be interesting to know what

5963
04:14:47,809 --> 04:14:46,859
those discussions entailed yeah it would

5964
04:14:50,450 --> 04:14:47,819
be

5965
04:14:52,610 --> 04:14:50,460
um and I think June 6th is the episode

5966
04:14:57,469 --> 04:14:52,620
of

5967
04:14:59,210 --> 04:14:57,479
Travis uh Jay Stratton is going to be on

5968
04:15:01,010 --> 04:14:59,220
which I'm looking forward to that I knew

5969
04:15:02,510 --> 04:15:01,020
about that I knew he was going to be in

5970
04:15:03,889 --> 04:15:02,520
a few episodes when I met with him I

5971
04:15:06,229 --> 04:15:03,899
couldn't talk about it yet

5972
04:15:09,290 --> 04:15:06,239
History Channel had their great reveal

5973
04:15:12,650 --> 04:15:09,300
at the alien con conference in March

5974
04:15:15,229 --> 04:15:12,660
where I went and I transcribed Travis

5975
04:15:16,729 --> 04:15:15,239
Taylor and Jay Stratton with George

5976
04:15:19,429 --> 04:15:16,739
Knapp and it's

5977
04:15:21,469 --> 04:15:19,439
a long transcript and I'll have it out

5978
04:15:22,790 --> 04:15:21,479
in a week I had some issues with it but

5979
04:15:25,189 --> 04:15:22,800
those are

5980
04:15:27,410 --> 04:15:25,199
resolved I just have to add a couple of

5981
04:15:28,910 --> 04:15:27,420
things to it last one the statement

5982
04:15:31,250 --> 04:15:28,920
about cutting the feed was followed up

5983
04:15:33,590 --> 04:15:31,260
that he personally was unaware

5984
04:15:35,210 --> 04:15:33,600
that in in only the last 20 years he

5985
04:15:37,429 --> 04:15:35,220
couldn't speak beyond that time period

5986
04:15:39,590 --> 04:15:37,439
which is interesting and was interesting

5987
04:15:41,870 --> 04:15:39,600
yeah as far as I know that they'll say

5988
04:15:45,290 --> 04:15:41,880
stuff like that as far as I know which

5989
04:15:48,229 --> 04:15:45,300
gets them off the hook so

5990
04:15:50,450 --> 04:15:48,239
yeah it I'm gonna hopefully they put out

5991
04:15:51,950 --> 04:15:50,460
a transcript I'm not transcribing four

5992
04:15:54,050 --> 04:15:51,960
hours of this

5993
04:15:55,849 --> 04:15:54,060
um hopefully maybe I'll do Kirkpatrick

5994
04:15:57,229 --> 04:15:55,859
and that one woman

5995
04:15:58,429 --> 04:15:57,239
um hopefully they have a transcript

5996
04:16:00,830 --> 04:15:58,439
because

5997
04:16:03,290 --> 04:16:00,840
I hope they had a transcriber hired for

5998
04:16:06,290 --> 04:16:03,300
this I mean it's pretty historical you

5999
04:16:08,750 --> 04:16:06,300
know historic for NASA to have a a

6000
04:16:10,370 --> 04:16:08,760
meeting public meeting on UFOs like this

6001
04:16:12,410 --> 04:16:10,380
even though some of it was really

6002
04:16:15,110 --> 04:16:12,420
annoying you know the guy said the go

6003
04:16:19,070 --> 04:16:15,120
fast was going 40 miles per hour Mick

6004
04:16:22,550 --> 04:16:19,080
West the debunker his range was 38 to

6005
04:16:24,650 --> 04:16:22,560
115 I think something in that range

6006
04:16:27,110 --> 04:16:24,660
um Bruce Maccabee said about 400 miles

6007
04:16:29,750 --> 04:16:27,120
per hour Gary Nolan when he was with

6008
04:16:32,269 --> 04:16:29,760
ttsa said 400 miles per hour and those

6009
04:16:34,849 --> 04:16:32,279
may be a little high but 40 miles per

6010
04:16:36,349 --> 04:16:34,859
hour and then why would why would why

6011
04:16:38,210 --> 04:16:36,359
would atip even put that in the

6012
04:16:40,130 --> 04:16:38,220
anomalous category what else about that

6013
04:16:42,110 --> 04:16:40,140
sighting do we have I just think that

6014
04:16:43,550 --> 04:16:42,120
was just why put that out and then the

6015
04:16:45,229 --> 04:16:43,560
Kirkpatrick thing with the three lights

6016
04:16:47,570 --> 04:16:45,239
oh those are planes why do you keep

6017
04:16:49,189 --> 04:16:47,580
doing that to us I mean there's no

6018
04:16:51,349 --> 04:16:49,199
reason that we know that people make

6019
04:16:53,990 --> 04:16:51,359
mistakes we know that the large

6020
04:16:56,030 --> 04:16:54,000
percentage of alleged unidentifieds are

6021
04:16:58,070 --> 04:16:56,040
not identical they're not unidentified I

6022
04:16:59,389 --> 04:16:58,080
mean they turn out to be prosaic you

6023
04:17:02,570 --> 04:16:59,399
know anywhere from five to twenty

6024
04:17:05,450 --> 04:17:02,580
percent depending on what you look at

6025
04:17:08,090 --> 04:17:05,460
nope there were not any aliens

6026
04:17:09,530 --> 04:17:08,100
I.T guy

6027
04:17:11,630 --> 04:17:09,540
but um

6028
04:17:15,349 --> 04:17:11,640
yeah some people took really good

6029
04:17:17,750 --> 04:17:15,359
in-depth notes on Twitter I did not I

6030
04:17:20,750 --> 04:17:17,760
retweeted some stuff but anyway all

6031
04:17:24,469 --> 04:17:20,760
right thanks for being here guys and um

6032
04:17:27,050 --> 04:17:24,479
I'll be back hopefully soon

6033
04:17:28,849 --> 04:17:27,060
I keep talking about doing what I really

6034
04:17:30,769 --> 04:17:28,859
want to do and I'm not sure exactly how

6035
04:17:32,870 --> 04:17:30,779
I'm gonna do it basically

6036
04:17:35,630 --> 04:17:32,880
there's so much good stuff going on that

6037
04:17:38,630 --> 04:17:35,640
doesn't make it out to YouTube

6038
04:17:39,650 --> 04:17:38,640
Elon Musk has talked about how he's

6039
04:17:43,849 --> 04:17:39,660
gonna make

6040
04:17:45,769 --> 04:17:43,859
Twitter revenue revenue sharing

6041
04:17:48,889 --> 04:17:45,779
because I spend all day doing that stuff

6042
04:17:51,110 --> 04:17:48,899
on Twitter and if I could just do stuff

6043
04:17:53,090 --> 04:17:51,120
on Twitter and go live there and do all

6044
04:17:54,650 --> 04:17:53,100
of my what I want to do is just go

6045
04:17:56,570 --> 04:17:54,660
through my tweets for the day or the

6046
04:17:58,670 --> 04:17:56,580
week pick the best ones

6047
04:18:00,349 --> 04:17:58,680
and just play them and then and then

6048
04:18:02,570 --> 04:18:00,359
comment on them because there's so there

6049
04:18:03,469 --> 04:18:02,580
is a lot of stuff going on

6050
04:18:05,510 --> 04:18:03,479
um

6051
04:18:07,370 --> 04:18:05,520
it's not the stuff we want to see it's

6052
04:18:09,710 --> 04:18:07,380
not whistleblowers coming forward but

6053
04:18:11,870 --> 04:18:09,720
this interesting information I mean we

6054
04:18:15,349 --> 04:18:11,880
definitely have lulls

6055
04:18:17,870 --> 04:18:15,359
um but I'm really I shouldn't say that

6056
04:18:20,150 --> 04:18:17,880
I'm I'm hopeful for 2023 but I'm not

6057
04:18:22,309 --> 04:18:20,160
counting on it so yeah thanks again guys

6058
04:18:23,990 --> 04:18:22,319
thanks for the comments and I will see

6059
04:18:25,729 --> 04:18:24,000
you on Twitter hopefully you guys are

6060
04:18:26,630 --> 04:18:25,739
there and if you if you're not on

6061
04:18:31,210 --> 04:18:26,640
Twitter

6062
04:18:34,010 --> 04:18:31,220
because you're afraid because it's

6063
04:18:37,309 --> 04:18:34,020
volatile you can just follow me and

6064
04:18:38,990 --> 04:18:37,319
follow a handful of folks you won't see

6065
04:18:40,370 --> 04:18:39,000
that stuff so you can control what you

6066
04:18:43,370 --> 04:18:40,380
see and if you have people who act up

6067
04:18:47,570 --> 04:18:43,380
just mute them or or block them yes

6068
04:18:51,650 --> 04:18:47,580
cookie will enjoy the walk and